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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:27 am
 


Im tired of the rhetoric, poli-speak from our supposed leaders. What happened to Value Added? FRBC? Our govt. is so short sighted when it comes to this log export fiasco. We can make things out of wood here in Canada! Lets create some jobs at home!!


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:02 am
 


Thought of taking the whole pill instead of just half?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:39 am
 


woodytwoshoes woodytwoshoes:
Im tired of the rhetoric, poli-speak from our supposed leaders. What happened to Value Added? FRBC? Our govt. is so short sighted when it comes to this log export fiasco. We can make things out of wood here in Canada! Lets create some jobs at home!!



So make things out of wood and sell them. Start a company. What's holding you back?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:57 am
 


Wait for the `Free Trade` deal with Japan. Then we will export a lot more raw lumber and a lot more manufacturing jobs.

Alberta beef and B.C. logs along with Central Canada`s jobs as Harper pushes this country deeper into the tank.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:06 am
 


woodytwoshoes woodytwoshoes:
Im tired of the rhetoric, poli-speak from our supposed leaders. What happened to Value Added? FRBC? Our govt. is so short sighted when it comes to this log export fiasco. We can make things out of wood here in Canada! Lets create some jobs at home!!


I'm not sure that just a ban on exports is the answer. The reason those logs are going out of the country, is because those buyers are willing to pay substantially more for them than the local mills. I had a friend in the lumber business who said he could sell a log to the US for $500 that MacBlo (at the time) would turn into $250 worth of lumber, ie half the money after all that extra value added. He said they were in the value subtraction business. So our mills need to be a whole lot more competitive. That's where the govt needs to look to see what if anything it can do.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:13 am
 


Typical Canadian attitude!! So short sighted. Big money now!!! Get a grip, if we dont look after ourselves here in Canada, whos going to, the Chineese? Not likely! We seem to forget that it is us that has the resourses, not them!! We have been giving away our resourses , water, power, fibre etc. for so long it has become a bad habit we cant seem to break.
I think the real problem is that the people in power dont care about jobs for the masses, they care about lining their own pockets and looking good to their counterparts in other countries. Why would they care, they dont need money they are already wealthy!!
yaddda yadda


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:39 am
 


eureka eureka:
Wait for the `Free Trade` deal with Japan. Then we will export a lot more raw lumber and a lot more manufacturing jobs.

Alberta beef and B.C. logs along with Central Canada`s jobs as Harper pushes this country deeper into the tank.


Japan due to size and population has become a manufacturing country and as such requires materials from around the globe. It has als built manufacturing plants in manyparts of the world. A significant number of Canadians living in Ontario owe their livelihood to Toyota and Honda. Without the Japanes auto plants there would be that many more Ontarians out of work. And of course Canadians in all provinces get to have jobs at the Japanes dealerships for autos and motorcycles.

Now Alberta beef would be considered a 'finished' product. It started off in a cow calf operation, went through a feedlot, then a slaughter house to a packaging facility. Value was added at each step and Canadian were employed here earning income. The Japanes get to consume the finished product and the value stops about the point the meat entered their mouth.

Looks to me like we win in both areas.

As for Central Canada jobs, the problem is south of Windsor. Putting all your eggs in ones basket depending on the economy of a single purchaser can bite you in the ass. Ontario is reaping the rewards of lack of foresight and it is not the fault of the federal government whether it was Liberal or Conservative.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:48 am
 


woodytwoshoes woodytwoshoes:
Typical Canadian attitude!! So short sighted. Big money now!!! Get a grip, if we dont look after ourselves here in Canada, whos going to, the Chineese? Not likely! We seem to forget that it is us that has the resourses, not them!! We have been giving away our resourses , water, power, fibre etc. for so long it has become a bad habit we cant seem to break.
I think the real problem is that the people in power dont care about jobs for the masses, they care about lining their own pockets and looking good to their counterparts in other countries. Why would they care, they dont need money they are already wealthy!!
yaddda yadda



I see. So your solution is to sit on your duff and do nothing? How about starting a small business and creating a few jobs for your fellow Canadians? Or are you a person who would fall under your definition in this sentence.

woodytwoshoes woodytwoshoes:
I think the real problem is that the people in power dont care about jobs for the masses, they care about lining their own pockets


You may deny the 'in power' part, but you do have the power to invest, be an entrepreneur or in other words generate wealth. It is also within your power to sit back and let someone else take care of you. Where do you stand? If you expand your statements then it would help define to a greater extent where you think the problems lie.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:02 am
 


1Peg 1Peg:
woodytwoshoes woodytwoshoes:
Im tired of the rhetoric, poli-speak from our supposed leaders. What happened to Value Added? FRBC? Our govt. is so short sighted when it comes to this log export fiasco. We can make things out of wood here in Canada! Lets create some jobs at home!!



So make things out of wood and sell them. Start a company. What's holding you back?


His spelling and grammar issues for one, not to mention his drug problems attitude.

-J.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:09 am
 


woodytwoshoes woodytwoshoes:
Typical Canadian attitude!! So short sighted. Big money now!!! Get a grip, if we dont look after ourselves here in Canada, whos going to, the Chineese? Not likely! We seem to forget that it is us that has the resourses, not them!! We have been giving away our resourses , water, power, fibre etc. for so long it has become a bad habit we cant seem to break.
I think the real problem is that the people in power dont care about jobs for the masses, they care about lining their own pockets and looking good to their counterparts in other countries. Why would they care, they dont need money they are already wealthy!!
yaddda yadda

Yet I'm sure it is you who's picture we've seen shopping at Walmat.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 1:37 pm
 


Those Auto Plants replace existing facilities, caelon. They create nothing new. And they replace them only in part. It also is the doing of the federal government that for a generations now has brought the country ever closer to the USA. The purpose of the Mulroney Trade agreements was to integrate the Canadian economy into the US. The chief negotiator for the US wrote in a memo to his political superiors that, " We got everything we wanted. The Canadian economy will be integrated within twenty years."

Trade orientation is a federal matter.

Whether Alberta beef is a value added product is not the point. The prime beneficiaries of such an agreement will be Alberta beef and BC lumber plus, of course some other, mostly Western resource items. The quid pro quo for Japan will be easier access for its manufactures to the Canadian market. It is a win only for Harper's political base and for Japan. It will be a loss for everyone else in Canada.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 3:53 pm
 


eureka eureka:
Those Auto Plants replace existing facilities, caelon. They create nothing new. And they replace them only in part. It also is the doing of the federal government that for a generations now has brought the country ever closer to the USA. The purpose of the Mulroney Trade agreements was to integrate the Canadian economy into the US. The chief negotiator for the US wrote in a memo to his political superiors that, " We got everything we wanted. The Canadian economy will be integrated within twenty years."

Trade orientation is a federal matter.


Subsequently the American press and politicians have criticized the FTA as being more beneficial to Canadathan the US. Without the FTA in place we would not hve been successful in the world courts with trade disputes with the US. In retrospect Canada has gained more from the FTA than it has lost.

eureka eureka:
Whether Alberta beef is a value added product is not the point. The prime beneficiaries of such an agreement will be Alberta beef and BC lumber plus, of course some other, mostly Western resource items. The quid pro quo for Japan will be easier access for its manufactures to the Canadian market. It is a win only for Harper's political base and for Japan. It will be a loss for everyone else in Canada.



Your viewpoint is too narrow. How can it be a loss when progressive areas of the country gain jobs and export dollars. Even in Ontario there is a net gain in prosperity. After decades of substandard vehicle production by the big 3 American car manufacturers, consumers are choosing quality. When those quality autos are produced in Ontario plants that is a huge win. The alternative is tie Ontario fortunes to US autos that fewer people want. Not a wise move. The best move for Ontario manufacturing is to adapt to what consumers are willing to buy. Japan has helped in the process. Now the rest of the manufacturers need to get competitive with plants in the US and Asia so that it can regain market share in the US. They cannot do it with 50 year old plants and outdated equipment.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 4:28 pm
 


There is very little that we have gained in World courts through the FTA. I assume that you mean the Softwood Lumber question that did not work out all that well.

Progressive areas of the country? In the sense of manufacturing, Ontario is number one in that. Socially, Quebec is.

I cannot credit that you actually believe that there has been a net gain in prosperity in Ontario. The loss of more than one quarter of a million jobs in manufacturing is not a mark of a "gain" in prosperity.

Quality is in the eye of the beholder in this. Originally, the imports were cheaper not of greater quality and they displaced German, French and British brands that were better. Their quality has improved since they gained a foothold in the North American Market..

I repeat what I have said many times. How can Ontario compete in the US with a petrodollar that prices all Canadian goods out of that Market.

Incidemtally, there has been massive investment in Ontario's car plants. The Oshawa facility has been almost without exception for many years, rated the most efficient and productive in North America. It cannot sell what it cannot price competitively.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:35 pm
 


The dollar is at par. If anything, that leaves us with a level playing field. So you can't blame the dollar. The problem lies with either an inept and inefficient manufacturing process/system that is less efficient and therefore more expensive than the American system, or something else that drastically influences the whole group of manufacturing industries.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:56 pm
 


eureka eureka:
Progressive areas of the country?

Yes those that actuall have a growing economy like Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Newfoundland, etc.

eureka eureka:
I cannot credit that you actually believe that there has been a net gain in prosperity in Ontario. The loss of more than one quarter of a million jobs in manufacturing is not a mark of a "gain" in prosperity.

Again your viewpoint is too narrow. We were talking specifically about Japan. If you would like I can go back and copy the relevant sections of your previous posts. So YES Ontario has enjoyed a net gain from Canadian trade with Japan. Including large auto plants that employ thousands of people in the province.

eureka eureka:
Quality is in the eye of the beholder in this. Originally, the imports were cheaper not of greater quality and they displaced German, French and British brands that were better. Their quality has improved since they gained a foothold in the North American Market..

Well would accept industry trade publications quoting superior Japanes quality compared to the world? How about unbiased organizations like Consumer Reports citing repair history and reliability? Japanes quality is amongst the very best in the world. The problem with the NA big 3 is the quality went down hill and then staid there for decades. The rest of the world continually improved with the fastest improvements being in Japan and Korea. In the past 15 years the American manufacturers have made significant improvements, but they still lag quite aways behind.[/quote]

eureka eureka:
I repeat what I have said many times. How can Ontario compete in the US with a petrodollar that prices all Canadian goods out of that Market.

I REPEAT WHAT MYSELF AND MANY OTHERS HAVE TOLD YOU OVER AND OVER AGAIN THERE IS NO CANADIAN PETRO DOLLAR. YOUR LARGEST CUSTOMER HAD A CURRENCY DEVALTUATION. Sucks when you do not adapt to the changing times, but nobody ever promised that the world would be static. If you refuse to adapt to the changing times then you write your own demise.

eureka eureka:
Incidemtally, there has been massive investment in Ontario's car plants. The Oshawa facility has been almost without exception for many years, rated the most efficient and productive in North America. It cannot sell what it cannot price competitively.

And why is that? Hmmm let's see. You say that Canadian manufactured goods are too expensive. Could it be that they are not efficient enough to compete with US plants? If they could then they would be selling lots of product. If the market is only willing to pay $1.00 don't try to compete at $1.35 unless your product is 40% or 50% better than the other guys. Get your costs in line so that you can sell at $0.97 and have an advantage. Economics 101. Don't look to the ROC to keep subsidizing Ontario inefficiency.


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