[Zipperfish]

GeeGeeMcFee GeeGeeMcFee:

Plotting a course also depends on knowing where you are starting from. I think more non-Natives need to take some "Native Studies" courses so that they recognize that Natives actually have legal rights that the Crown is obligated to uphold.

Not a bad idea. Most Canadians seem to think that Canada can legitimately walk away from its obligations. But native history is boring. My poor kid is suffering through it right now.

[Thanos]

Yes, it's the high point of any democratic system to make as many people as informed as possible about all the goodies, freebies, and guilt-money they can sue the government into oblivion over. And the tax-payers that have to foot the bill for all of it? Bah, fuck 'em. Asshole whiteys all deserve it.

[GeeGeeMcFee]

$1:

I want to get rid of the Indian problem. I do not think as a matter of fact, that the country ought to continuously protect a class of people who are able to stand alone… Our objective is to continue until there is not a single Indian in Canada that has not been absorbed into the body politic and there is no Indian question, and no Indian Department, that is the whole object of this Bill.

Duncan Campbell Scott Crica 1920

$1:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duncan_Campbell_Scott

That was nearly 100 years ago.

$1:

Scott was a Canadian lifetime civil servant who served as deputy superintendent of the Department of Indian Affairs from 1913 to 1932.

And you are spouting the same shit 100 years later. Scott had good intentions but the methods he advocated for (like kidnapping children and putting them in residential schools) did not work.

We can listen to well intentioned people like you and Scott, or we can do things right for once and in 30 years have the Indian problem solved for the good of everyone. Or in 100 years they'll be quoting our current leaders to try to understand why it took 235 years to figure this out.

[GeeGeeMcFee]

Thanos Thanos:

Yes, it's the high point of any democratic system to make as many people as informed as possible about all the goodies, freebies, and guilt-money they can sue the government into oblivion over. And the tax-payers that have to foot the bill for all of it? Bah, fuck 'em. Asshole whiteys all deserve it.

Just like I mentioned, some ignoramus spouting about suing for guilt money instead of advocating that we track down who did the fraud and confiscating their money and property.

Indian people settle lawsuits based on legal requirements. If we had treated them equally based on our own laws then there would not be lawsuits.

Equality does not include picking and choosing what laws the government needs to follow. As individuals we might test our luck, but the Crown does not and should not have that option.

[peck420]

GeeGeeMcFee GeeGeeMcFee:

We can listen to well intentioned people like you and Scott, or we can do things right for once and in 30 years have the Indian problem solved for the good of everyone. Or in 100 years they'll be quoting our current leaders to try to understand why it took 235 years to figure this out.

You keep saying that "we should do things right".

We implies two parties working together, all of your 'solutions' imply only one party need change.

More cost and more failure! Yay, for the status quo!

[Thanos]

They've had their billions handed to them from their bullshit lawsuits and gotten more apologies than any other minority on the face of the planet. If they can't get their shit together after all of that, and the endless billions that gets wasted on them every year too, then to hell with them.

It's like all that Great Society welfare in the US that's cured nothing over the last fifty-plus years. If they'd put as much money into the space program that they've wasted on generations of welfare moochers and other parasites the US would probably have permanently manned colonies on the Moon, Mars, and the satellites of Jupiter by now.

[Zipperfish]

Thanos Thanos:

They've had their billions handed to them from their bullshit lawsuits and gotten more apologies than any other minority on the face of the planet. If they can't get their shit together after all of that, and the endless billions that gets wasted on them every year too, then to hell with them.

It's like all that Great Society welfare in the US that's cured nothing over the last fifty-plus years. If they'd put as much money into the space program that they've wasted on generations of welfare moochers and other parasites the US would probably have permanently manned colonies on the Moon, Mars, and the satellites of Jupiter by now.

Europa?

[Thanos]

Adolfstadt.

[OnTheIce]

fifeboy fifeboy:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

fifeboy fifeboy:

Now if you and others could get over your fear and loathing, Natives would have somewhere to start with their problems.

Natives don't need to worry about my feelings or the feelings of others to start addressing their problems.

Problems need to be addressed on a reserve/band level and for the finger pointing to stop.

That's right, I forgot, only the abuse you suffered counts. OK, got it.

Fife, You twist yourself into knots trying to be clever where you don't even make sense from post to post. Let's have an adult discussion.

You said:

$1:

if you and others could get over your fear and loathing, Natives would have somewhere to start with their problems.

What do my feelings have to do with Natives solving problems on their reserves? Do they need me to "get over" my feelings before they can address problems in their communities?

Explain yourself.

[OnTheIce]

GeeGeeMcFee GeeGeeMcFee:

If we listen to more of your rhetoric we are going to keep paying through the nose for Natives claims against Canada.

And if we listen to people like you, we'll be in the same spot....just with less money.

We'll still have rampant alcoholism, drug use, corruption and a large about of FN people in jail.

We'll always continue to keep dumping money into Natives and their various claims and programs because one side is NEVER willing to change because it's always someone else's fault and asking for more money is always the solution.

[GeeGeeMcFee]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

GeeGeeMcFee GeeGeeMcFee:

If we listen to more of your rhetoric we are going to keep paying through the nose for Natives claims against Canada.

And if we listen to people like you, we'll be in the same spot....just with less money.

We'll still have rampant alcoholism, drug use, corruption and a large about of FN people in jail.

We'll always continue to keep dumping money into Natives and their various claims and programs because one side is NEVER willing to change because it's always someone else's fault and asking for more money is always the solution.

And the cost of those jails and health issues and corruption are borne by you and I.

Education, education, education - if we fail to educate children so that they can compete for jobs then we have no one to blame but ourselves.

A 18 year old person with little education is not going to be employable, no matter what colour their skin. It costs way less to educate people than it does to pay them to be on welfare or in jail.

I get it, your decision is that you would rather pay for the costs of poverty than enjoy the shared success of a higher GDP and lower social costs than pay a fraction of those costs now to alleviate those issues later.

The Natives have proven that you can starve them and rape them and steal their shit and kidnap their children and infect them with small pox and sterilize them and abuse them and they are STILL HERE and we are still footing the bill.

There is a way out - education.

[peck420]

GeeGeeMcFee GeeGeeMcFee:

There is a way out - education.

Would this be the same education that multitudes of immigrants (many from places worse then any reserve in Canada) have used to better their lives for the past 30 years or so?

I am curious how a system that is so flawed is working for so many. Whoops, forgot myself there. That's the system that certain groups refuse to use.

[OnTheIce]

GeeGeeMcFee GeeGeeMcFee:

There is a way out - education.

If that's the case, why don't parents send their kids to public schools when they are indeed close enough for bussing, walking or driving?

[GeeGeeMcFee]

I think lots of them do. Lots of kids from the File Hills bands going to school in Balcarras. I think the schoolboard suck up the difference between what the feds pay for each student and what the province does.

Just a coincidence that I ran into someone from out there. There is a school on at least on of those reserves but the parents have the choice and it sounds like Balcarras has a decent school.

I'm going to see if in fact the feds are matching the provincial dollars for those kids. Give me a few days. Have a good night folks I'm going to relax with some brewskis and a hockey game. Maybe smoke a J.

[fifeboy]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

You said:

$1:

if you and others could get over your fear and loathing, Natives would have somewhere to start with their problems.

What do my feelings have to do with Natives solving problems on their reserves? Do they need me to "get over" my feelings before they can address problems in their communities?

Explain yourself.

Not you Icy, I would think, from your attitude that you actually don't know any native people. However, the problem of racism in Canada is a historical and ongoing problem that needs to be addressed, and starting with individual attitudes is a good place. I have seen it in classrooms in Saskatchewan, in an aboriginal community (however, in these cases, the teachers didn't stay long.) Also in non-aboriginal communities. Children don't learn well in situations where they feel excluded and downgraded. I must admit that the situation is improving with Dpt. of Ed. requirements on including native culture in the curriculum. Success in school leads to success in life, which may be an overstated idea, but considering I was a teacher, I like it.

I don't know the situation in Central Canada as I have not lived there for about 40 years.