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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 3:47 pm
 


Try cic.gc.ca. Everything should be there.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 5:51 pm
 


andyt wrote:
saturn_656 wrote:
Zipperfish wrote:
Well, on the plus side, another nail in the coffin for Harper. Screwing the Canadian worker so he can reward his corporate buddies. This will turn rural Conservatvies against him as well.

Sucks for Canada though.


You must have missed the bit where the case was dismissed by a Federal Court judge, not anyone in the elected government.

Put the blame where it belongs.


The blame belongs to Harper and Christie Clark. Harper for setting up the temp worker program that makes it so easy to screw Canadians out of jobs. Clark for not insisting that for the project to go ahead they train Canadians for the job if that's what's required. They had 10 years lead time on this to do so. But the training aspect was bullshit anyway, same as with those Indian IT workers we read about that supposedly needed all those special skills, when in truth they didn't have them and didn't need them. This mess didn't revolve around the court case, that was just the union trying to find a way to stop it.

As for the court's findings, we read on this forum about how limited the federel employees are in what they can assess about a temp worker application and how if they ask too many questions instead of rubber stamping it they are disciplined or fired. They can't even assess the skills of the people being brought in. The court didn't set up that situation, the Harper government did. I sure hope that Zip's right that conservatives will turn against Harper on this, but from what we see on this forum, I doubt it. As long as it doesn't affect them, who cares.



Sorry Andy but your off the mark again with your anti harper bias. Harper didn't set up the Temporary Workers Program it was the Beloved Leader Pierre Elliot Trudeau.

Quote:
HISTORY OF CANADA’S TEMPORARY FOREIGN WORKER PROGRAM
The TFWP evolved out of Canada’s first formalized migrant worker
program, the 1973 Non-Immigrant Employment Authorization Program
(NIEAP), which established a new class of temporary resident tied specifically to
non-permanent employment.


http://www.justlabour.yorku.ca/volume19 ... _press.pdf

So if you're gonna accuse someone at least get the person responsible right.

Harper and Clark may be in power but this problem has been going on for decades and the abuse has really just come to light now because people are just finding out that the big corporations and banks have been raping them for years if not decades.

Combine those things with a better educated and trained foreign workforce and you can see why the greedy fucks would start abusing the program by bringing in those foreign nationals to take our jobs.

Harper and Clark should be stopping it but from all appearances only one of them seems to be making any attempt and it isn't a female. So maybe if people cut the political crap and started aiming their bitching at the Corporations and Banks who circumvented the system we might have better luck at stopping it because even if the Gov't changes the regulations you know they'll find another way to get around it.

.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 11:48 pm
 


The program greatly expanded under the current government, so nice try to save your boy.

Quote:
During the mid-2000s the number of temporary foreign workers (TFWs)
present in Canada increased dramatically, more than tripling in eight years. The
bulk of the increase was due to an expansion of the Temporary Foreign Worker
Program (TFWP) to include lower-skilled occupations. The stated reason for the
expansion was to address short-term labour shortages. Contrary to expectations,
upon the onset of the economic downturn in 2008, the number of TFWs did not
decrease significantly, and appears to be increasing again in 2010 and 2011. T


http://www.justlabour.yorku.ca/volume19 ... _press.pdf

But you're right, I shouldn't just blame Christie Clark as far as BC goes, this project has been on the books for at least 5 years, and I've read 10. So Gordo also has to shoulder the blame.


Oh, and that pay the temp worker 15% less rule? The committee studying it recommended employers should have to pay 15% more than prevailing wage. but the Harper Government decided that going with 15% less was the way to go.


Quote:
Temporary foreign worker flood to continue: Siddiqui
Governments rarely acknowledge mistakes. Immigration Minister Jason Kenney has managed, with the help of a dictation-taking media, to shift blame for the mess in the temporary foreign worker program onto employers. But they did only what they were allowed to do — hire guest workers from abroad, in droves, even as the economy was going down after 2008.
The government is responsible for this boondoggle.
Flooding Canada with foreign temps drives down wages, robs Canadians of jobs and creates a two-tier society — as in Germany, with its debilitating economic, social and political consequences.
Canada should not be importing poor guest workers, period. If we need workers, we should bring them as immigrants. Ottawa should learn to process immigrant applicants as efficiently as it has been ushering foreign temps in.
Kenney’s new rule ending the wage differential between foreign and domestic workers is welcome. So is the provision that only English or French can be used as a job requirement. So is the suspension (which should have been a termination) of fast-tracking foreign worker visas, a process that Ottawa let get out of hand.
But his other changes are a PR exercise to placate outraged Canadians.
Notice how he has not announced any reduction in the number of foreign workers, estimated officially at 338,000 as of December last year but unofficially at 500,000.
“The government sets absolute targets for the number of permanent immigrants per year and also refugees, yet there’s still no limit on temporary foreign workers,” notes Naomi Alboim of Queen’s University, an immigration expert.
Notice also how there’s no change in the program’s most reviled feature — the mass importing of foreign temps by restaurants and others in the service sector, even though the scheme was ostensibly designed mainly to ease high-skill shortages.
Notice, too, there’s not a word about improving the working conditions of the temporary workers, who are subject to much abuse, especially in the agricultural sector.
No word also on how many temporary foreign workers could apply for landed immigrant status, so that both they and Canadians ultimately benefit from their work experience here. Nor is there a commitment to rigorously enforce the rules.
Kenney’s “reforms” are anything but.
He says employers hiring foreign help must have “a firm plan” to transition to a Canadian labour force. But anyone can write a plausible plan.
Employers would be allowed to hire a Canadian “over time.” Why no time frame — say, by the end of a visa for a temp?
Ottawa would shift its $35.5-million a year cost of processing applications onto employers. But it doesn’t say how it would ensure that the costs are not passed onto the workers.
Agricultural employers would have even less oversight.
For decades, farmers have been bringing temps under the seasonal agricultural workers program, mostly from Latin America and the Caribbean, for up to eight months a year. Under bilateral arrangements, the workers are screened by their own governments. And their embassies in Canada monitor minimum working conditions here.
But lately, employers — especially those in year-round businesses, such as greenhouses — have been shifting their labour onto the temporary foreign workers program. The latter issues visas up to four years and has less monitoring.
This increases the chances of the workers being exploited even more, says journalist Jeffrey Carter of Dresden, Ont., who writes on agricultural issues.
The only provision in the new changes that applies to the agricultural sector is the one where Ottawa promises to revoke the permission given employers to hire temporary workers in case of abuses.
But Ottawa is not likely to know of abuses any more now than it did before. It has not allocated any new resources, such as inspectors to do on-site inspections. It will continue to rely on employee complaints.
“No employee is going to rat on their employer so long as their status depends on that employer,” says Alboim. If a worker is brave enough to complain and Ottawa suspends an employer’s permit, Ottawa would also end up revoking the poor worker’s work permit, since the latter is tied to the former. And she would get deported.
This is precisely how it works in Saudi Arabia and other oil-rich Arab countries.
“The work permit should not be employer-specific but sector specific,” suggests Alboim. “An employee should have the right to complain about her working conditions and also to be able to get another job in the same sector.”
What we’ve just seen from Kenney is yet another of his smoke-and-mirror shows. We could still end up with a high number of temporary foreign workers, who, besides being exploited, will continue to squeeze Canadians and permanent residents out of scarce jobs.


http://www.thestar.com/opinion/commenta ... diqui.html


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 4:14 am
 


andyt wrote:
The program greatly expanded under the current government, so nice try to save your boy.

Quote:
During the mid-2000s the number of temporary foreign workers (TFWs)
present in Canada increased dramatically, more than tripling in eight years. The
bulk of the increase was due to an expansion of the Temporary Foreign Worker
Program (TFWP) to include lower-skilled occupations. The stated reason for the
expansion was to address short-term labour shortages. Contrary to expectations,
upon the onset of the economic downturn in 2008, the number of TFWs did not
decrease significantly, and appears to be increasing again in 2010 and 2011. T


http://www.justlabour.yorku.ca/volume19 ... _press.pdf

But you're right, I shouldn't just blame Christie Clark as far as BC goes, this project has been on the books for at least 5 years, and I've read 10. So Gordo also has to shoulder the blame.


Oh, and that pay the temp worker 15% less rule? The committee studying it recommended employers should have to pay 15% more than prevailing wage. but the Harper Government decided that going with 15% less was the way to go.


Quote:
Temporary foreign worker flood to continue: Siddiqui
Governments rarely acknowledge mistakes. Immigration Minister Jason Kenney has managed, with the help of a dictation-taking media, to shift blame for the mess in the temporary foreign worker program onto employers. But they did only what they were allowed to do — hire guest workers from abroad, in droves, even as the economy was going down after 2008.
The government is responsible for this boondoggle.
Flooding Canada with foreign temps drives down wages, robs Canadians of jobs and creates a two-tier society — as in Germany, with its debilitating economic, social and political consequences.
Canada should not be importing poor guest workers, period. If we need workers, we should bring them as immigrants. Ottawa should learn to process immigrant applicants as efficiently as it has been ushering foreign temps in.
Kenney’s new rule ending the wage differential between foreign and domestic workers is welcome. So is the provision that only English or French can be used as a job requirement. So is the suspension (which should have been a termination) of fast-tracking foreign worker visas, a process that Ottawa let get out of hand.
But his other changes are a PR exercise to placate outraged Canadians.
Notice how he has not announced any reduction in the number of foreign workers, estimated officially at 338,000 as of December last year but unofficially at 500,000.
“The government sets absolute targets for the number of permanent immigrants per year and also refugees, yet there’s still no limit on temporary foreign workers,” notes Naomi Alboim of Queen’s University, an immigration expert.
Notice also how there’s no change in the program’s most reviled feature — the mass importing of foreign temps by restaurants and others in the service sector, even though the scheme was ostensibly designed mainly to ease high-skill shortages.
Notice, too, there’s not a word about improving the working conditions of the temporary workers, who are subject to much abuse, especially in the agricultural sector.
No word also on how many temporary foreign workers could apply for landed immigrant status, so that both they and Canadians ultimately benefit from their work experience here. Nor is there a commitment to rigorously enforce the rules.
Kenney’s “reforms” are anything but.
He says employers hiring foreign help must have “a firm plan” to transition to a Canadian labour force. But anyone can write a plausible plan.
Employers would be allowed to hire a Canadian “over time.” Why no time frame — say, by the end of a visa for a temp?
Ottawa would shift its $35.5-million a year cost of processing applications onto employers. But it doesn’t say how it would ensure that the costs are not passed onto the workers.
Agricultural employers would have even less oversight.
For decades, farmers have been bringing temps under the seasonal agricultural workers program, mostly from Latin America and the Caribbean, for up to eight months a year. Under bilateral arrangements, the workers are screened by their own governments. And their embassies in Canada monitor minimum working conditions here.
But lately, employers — especially those in year-round businesses, such as greenhouses — have been shifting their labour onto the temporary foreign workers program. The latter issues visas up to four years and has less monitoring.
This increases the chances of the workers being exploited even more, says journalist Jeffrey Carter of Dresden, Ont., who writes on agricultural issues.
The only provision in the new changes that applies to the agricultural sector is the one where Ottawa promises to revoke the permission given employers to hire temporary workers in case of abuses.
But Ottawa is not likely to know of abuses any more now than it did before. It has not allocated any new resources, such as inspectors to do on-site inspections. It will continue to rely on employee complaints.
“No employee is going to rat on their employer so long as their status depends on that employer,” says Alboim. If a worker is brave enough to complain and Ottawa suspends an employer’s permit, Ottawa would also end up revoking the poor worker’s work permit, since the latter is tied to the former. And she would get deported.
This is precisely how it works in Saudi Arabia and other oil-rich Arab countries.
“The work permit should not be employer-specific but sector specific,” suggests Alboim. “An employee should have the right to complain about her working conditions and also to be able to get another job in the same sector.”
What we’ve just seen from Kenney is yet another of his smoke-and-mirror shows. We could still end up with a high number of temporary foreign workers, who, besides being exploited, will continue to squeeze Canadians and permanent residents out of scarce jobs.


http://www.thestar.com/opinion/commenta ... diqui.html


May I remind you that you stated "The blame belongs to Harper and Christie Clark. Harper for setting up the temp worker program that makes it so easy to screw Canadians out of jobs".

Sorry but the rest of the post is irrelevant because, if you had read the dates the program was first dreamed up it was actually the Liberals who originated the program a fact that seems to be lost on you. So maybe next time you spout your half assed partisan accusations you can at least do a little research beforehand.

The current gov't may have allowed the program to get even further out of hand but, that still doesn't exonerate The Beloved Leader and the Liberals for initiating it because, it's been a bad idea from the beginning that's had the potential to be abused and for all we know always has been and this is just the first time anyone was stupid enough to get caught.

The reason these things are coming to light now is that companies have access to cheap, highly trained foreign workers, things they didn't readily have in the past. When you're a field hand and can't find a job because of foreign workers chances are the news media isn't going to champion your story, but if you're a high paid bank employee, it's news. So like I said the lure of more corporate profits at the expense of Canadians is more than these multinational corporations can stand and we're seeing the results.

But at least the Federal Gov't has paid lip service to stopping this practice which is a start that has to be followed through on by this and successive Gov'ts but you're not going to ever stop the program so long as there are menial jobs that unemployed Canadians think are beneath them. Jobs like picking fruit in the Okanagan or working on a farm.

Strange as it sounds a lot of the people doing the bitching didn't bitch when field workers came in and did those jobs since apparently Canadians didn't want to do them? They only started bitching when it was a high paying or high profile job which, when you think about it makes them hypocrites especially considering the lost jobs were ones they probably weren't qualified for nor would ever hold. So if they don't like the program they should get off their asses and take "all" the jobs that foreign workers have been getting instead of just bitching about the good ones.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 7:02 am
 


But ...but...but...THE LIBERALS!!!!

You are being just as partisan and that excuse is really getting tired.

Bank IT workers aren't "high-paid jobs." Middle-class. Like the mine worker jobs.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 7:16 am
 


Environmental Science......now there's the job of a member of the 1% :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 7:28 am
 


I get the temporary worker thing, that's how it got started, bringing in people to pick crops. They do it around here every year, we get workers from Spanish speaking countries in Central and South America, different country every year. But for permanent IT jobs when we probably have a bunch of them here collecting UI... mine jobs where a bit of training would get other Canadians working.

This is just a scam. :evil:


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 7:30 am
 


ShepherdsDog wrote:
Environmental Science......now there's the job of a member of the 1% :lol:


After a year in Afghanistan, I've realized we're all members of the 1% over here. Lucky.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 7:31 am
 


raydan wrote:
I get the temporary worker thing, that's how it got started, bringing in people to pick crops. They do it around here every year, we get workers from Spanish speaking countries in Central and South America, different country every year. But for permanent IT jobs when we probably have a bunch of them here collecting UI... mine jobs where a bit of training would get other Canadians working.

This is just a scam. :evil:


Back in my youth, the temp foreign workers picking fruit in the Okanagan summers were Quebecers. [huh]

Funny how times change.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 7:43 am
 


Gunnair wrote:
raydan wrote:
I get the temporary worker thing, that's how it got started, bringing in people to pick crops. They do it around here every year, we get workers from Spanish speaking countries in Central and South America, different country every year. But for permanent IT jobs when we probably have a bunch of them here collecting UI... mine jobs where a bit of training would get other Canadians working.

This is just a scam. :evil:


Back in my youth, the temp foreign workers picking fruit in the Okanagan summers were Quebecers. [huh]

Funny how times change.

Hippies on a working vacation?


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 7:54 am
 


you lost the coin toss.....we got Mexicans :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 9:14 am
 


Freakinoldguy wrote:
May I remind you that you stated "The blame belongs to Harper and Christie Clark. Harper for setting up the temp worker program that makes it so easy to screw Canadians out of jobs".

Sorry but the rest of the post is irrelevant because, if you had read the dates the program was first dreamed up it was actually the Liberals who originated the program a fact that seems to be lost on you. So maybe next time you spout your half assed partisan accusations you can at least do a little research beforehand.

The current gov't may have allowed the program to get even further out of hand but, that still doesn't exonerate The Beloved Leader and the Liberals for initiating it because, it's been a bad idea from the beginning that's had the potential to be abused and for all we know always has been and this is just the first time anyone was stupid enough to get caught.

The reason these things are coming to light now is that companies have access to cheap, highly trained foreign workers, things they didn't readily have in the past. When you're a field hand and can't find a job because of foreign workers chances are the news media isn't going to champion your story, but if you're a high paid bank employee, it's news. So like I said the lure of more corporate profits at the expense of Canadians is more than these multinational corporations can stand and we're seeing the results.

But at least the Federal Gov't has paid lip service to stopping this practice which is a start that has to be followed through on by this and successive Gov'ts but you're not going to ever stop the program so long as there are menial jobs that unemployed Canadians think are beneath them. Jobs like picking fruit in the Okanagan or working on a farm.

Strange as it sounds a lot of the people doing the bitching didn't bitch when field workers came in and did those jobs since apparently Canadians didn't want to do them? They only started bitching when it was a high paying or high profile job which, when you think about it makes them hypocrites especially considering the lost jobs were ones they probably weren't qualified for nor would ever hold. So if they don't like the program they should get off their asses and take "all" the jobs that foreign workers have been getting instead of just bitching about the good ones.



Alright, Alright, I should have written "the blame belongs to Harper for greatly expanding the program and allowing, in fact forcing, the rubber stamping of the applications". We bring in more temp workers now every year than immigrants.

It makes sense to bring in agricultural and other seasonal workers. Hard to maintain a workforce that only works for part of the year. It makes sense to grant temp permits to actors and what have you that do a special gig here. But conditions should be closely monitored to make sure the workers aren't being exploited and they should have the same workers rights as the locals.

It doesn't make sense to bring in people to do permanent jobs. If Canadians aren't applying for those jobs, then the wages offered are too low. but over and over we hear the employer giving the temp worker a guaranteed job, paying their transportation and even housing costs. They'd have much better luck attracting Canadians to those jobs if they offered that to them as well.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 9:44 am
 


andyt wrote:

Alright, Alright, I should have written "the blame belongs to Harper for greatly expanding the program and allowing, in fact forcing, the rubber stamping of the applications". We bring in more temp workers now every year than immigrants.

It makes sense to bring in agricultural and other seasonal workers. Hard to maintain a workforce that only works for part of the year. It makes sense to grant temp permits to actors and what have you that do a special gig here. But conditions should be closely monitored to make sure the workers aren't being exploited and they should have the same workers rights as the locals.

It doesn't make sense to bring in people to do permanent jobs. If Canadians aren't applying for those jobs, then the wages offered are too low. but over and over we hear the employer giving the temp worker a guaranteed job, paying their transportation and even housing costs. They'd have much better luck attracting Canadians to those jobs if they offered that to them as well.
Well said Andy. [flag]


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 12:24 pm
 


Zipperfish wrote:
But ...but...but...THE LIBERALS!!!!

You are being just as partisan and that excuse is really getting tired.

Bank IT workers aren't "high-paid jobs." Middle-class. Like the mine worker jobs.


Of course you'd say something like that. But before you think I'm defending the current gov't or any previous gov'ts remember I'm not the one who said that "The blame belongs to Harper and Christie Clark. Harper for setting up the temp worker program that makes it so easy to screw Canadians out of jobs".

If I was to venture a guess and this program had been a resounding success with people praising it, the left would be basking in it's glory as having been the ones who initiated it. But since it's a mismanaged disaster some folks have no trouble forgetting it's history in order to further their own particular partisan agenda but, when someone on the other side of the political spectrum points it out, it becomes tired.

And in comparison, the wages of an itinerant field worker earns, make an IT worker or Mine Worker seem more like Donald Trump than just middle class.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 12:27 pm
 


andyt wrote:
Freakinoldguy wrote:
May I remind you that you stated "The blame belongs to Harper and Christie Clark. Harper for setting up the temp worker program that makes it so easy to screw Canadians out of jobs".

Sorry but the rest of the post is irrelevant because, if you had read the dates the program was first dreamed up it was actually the Liberals who originated the program a fact that seems to be lost on you. So maybe next time you spout your half assed partisan accusations you can at least do a little research beforehand.

The current gov't may have allowed the program to get even further out of hand but, that still doesn't exonerate The Beloved Leader and the Liberals for initiating it because, it's been a bad idea from the beginning that's had the potential to be abused and for all we know always has been and this is just the first time anyone was stupid enough to get caught.

The reason these things are coming to light now is that companies have access to cheap, highly trained foreign workers, things they didn't readily have in the past. When you're a field hand and can't find a job because of foreign workers chances are the news media isn't going to champion your story, but if you're a high paid bank employee, it's news. So like I said the lure of more corporate profits at the expense of Canadians is more than these multinational corporations can stand and we're seeing the results.

But at least the Federal Gov't has paid lip service to stopping this practice which is a start that has to be followed through on by this and successive Gov'ts but you're not going to ever stop the program so long as there are menial jobs that unemployed Canadians think are beneath them. Jobs like picking fruit in the Okanagan or working on a farm.

Strange as it sounds a lot of the people doing the bitching didn't bitch when field workers came in and did those jobs since apparently Canadians didn't want to do them? They only started bitching when it was a high paying or high profile job which, when you think about it makes them hypocrites especially considering the lost jobs were ones they probably weren't qualified for nor would ever hold. So if they don't like the program they should get off their asses and take "all" the jobs that foreign workers have been getting instead of just bitching about the good ones.



Alright, Alright, I should have written "the blame belongs to Harper for greatly expanding the program and allowing, in fact forcing, the rubber stamping of the applications". We bring in more temp workers now every year than immigrants.

It makes sense to bring in agricultural and other seasonal workers. Hard to maintain a workforce that only works for part of the year. It makes sense to grant temp permits to actors and what have you that do a special gig here. But conditions should be closely monitored to make sure the workers aren't being exploited and they should have the same workers rights as the locals.

It doesn't make sense to bring in people to do permanent jobs. If Canadians aren't applying for those jobs, then the wages offered are too low. but over and over we hear the employer giving the temp worker a guaranteed job, paying their transportation and even housing costs. They'd have much better luck attracting Canadians to those jobs if they offered that to them as well.



Quote:
Alright, Alright, I should have written "the blame belongs to Harper for greatly expanding the program and allowing, in fact forcing, the rubber stamping of the applications". We bring in more temp workers now every year than immigrants.


Now we can agree on something. The Conservatives screwed the pooch royally, but we as a country shouldn't have been surprised because once the ball started rolling you know that someone would find a way to abuse it and it happened under the Conservative's watch which makes it their problem.


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