[CommanderSock]

It looks like the road to serfdom may not be political change after all.





http://consumerist.com/2010/09/student- ... avery.html

[Gunnair]

Wow. $120,000 in debt?

I wonder if they worked during their time in university? I sailed every summer with the navy, worked every day possible during the year, and still managed to contribute a few hundred a month for rent and food into the marriage. In the end, I finished with a debt of about $1000.00 bucks. Mind, I know some of my friends in university were in huge debt back in the early 90s.

[Mustang1]

You can pay off university debt here in Canada. It may take awhile and it may bite some people with inflated senses of worth and unrealistic economic expectations, but it is possible. Some people also don't work and let's be honest, some piss away student loans (and i've got many anecdotal examples) on iPhones, clothes, alcohol, trips and stuff. Multiple that by 4 and yeah, you've got debt.

[CommanderSock]

I worked my way through school too, but still came out with a large debt burden that I had to pay off after.

Working through school will barely fetch minimum wage (I was paid minimum wage). That won't cover the annual cost of tuition.

Working full time while in undergrad school is not advisable IMO.

[Gunnair]

Mustang1 Mustang1:

You can pay off university debt here in Canada. It may take awhile and it may bite some people with inflated senses of worth and unrealistic economic expectations, but it is possible. Some people also don't work and let's be honest, some piss away student loans (and i've got many anecdotal examples) on iPhones, clothes, alcohol, trips and stuff. Multiple that by 4 and yeah, you've got debt.

Yeah, i was wondering about that. I'd be some curious to see an itemized list of costs for someone with $120,000 of debt and see what was pissed away or wasted.

[CommanderSock]

Mustang1 Mustang1:

You can pay off university debt here in Canada. It may take awhile and it may bite some people with inflated senses of worth and unrealistic economic expectations, but it is possible. Some people also don't work and let's be honest, some piss away student loans (and i've got many anecdotal examples) on iPhones, clothes, alcohol, trips and stuff. Multiple that by 4 and yeah, you've got debt.

Canada's government does a pretty descent job of subsidizing education. Usually for undergrad its $40,000 for the top 5 schools, including living expenses.

But in the USA it's a nightmare. 100,000+ for a descent private college. Simply mind boggling.

Thank goodness for Canadian socialism.

[Gunnair]

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

Mustang1 Mustang1:

You can pay off university debt here in Canada. It may take awhile and it may bite some people with inflated senses of worth and unrealistic economic expectations, but it is possible. Some people also don't work and let's be honest, some piss away student loans (and i've got many anecdotal examples) on iPhones, clothes, alcohol, trips and stuff. Multiple that by 4 and yeah, you've got debt.

Canada's government does a pretty descent job of subsidizing education. Usually for undergrad its $40,000 for the top 5 schools, including living expenses.

But in the USA it's a nightmare. 100,000+ for a descent private college. Simply mind boggling.

Thank goodness for Canadian socialism.

And too bad people have bought into the concept that post secondary education is a must have.

You can make as much in a decent trade, likely more depending on the degree.

[CommanderSock]

Gunnair Gunnair:

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

Mustang1 Mustang1:

You can pay off university debt here in Canada. It may take awhile and it may bite some people with inflated senses of worth and unrealistic economic expectations, but it is possible. Some people also don't work and let's be honest, some piss away student loans (and i've got many anecdotal examples) on iPhones, clothes, alcohol, trips and stuff. Multiple that by 4 and yeah, you've got debt.

Canada's government does a pretty descent job of subsidizing education. Usually for undergrad its $40,000 for the top 5 schools, including living expenses.

But in the USA it's a nightmare. 100,000+ for a descent private college. Simply mind boggling.

Thank goodness for Canadian socialism.

And too bad people have bought into the concept that post secondary education is a must have.

You can make as much in a decent trade, likely more depending on the degree.

Unfortunately the education necessity isn't a myth, IMO.

In the field I work, it's basically the gatekeeper, without an undergrad at minimum, candidates will automatically be disqualified upon application.

EDIT: Many of the positions don't actually need an ungergrad education in practice. It's simply..."necessary". Puzzles the shit out of me because I feel hiring high school grads is a better option as they are more hungry and passionate, while university grads are more complacent as they believe they'll easily change job or move on.

[Gunnair]

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

Gunnair Gunnair:

Canada's government does a pretty descent job of subsidizing education. Usually for undergrad its $40,000 for the top 5 schools, including living expenses.

But in the USA it's a nightmare. 100,000+ for a descent private college. Simply mind boggling.

Thank goodness for Canadian socialism.

And too bad people have bought into the concept that post secondary education is a must have.

You can make as much in a decent trade, likely more depending on the degree.

Unfortunately the education necessity isn't a myth, IMO.

In the field I work, it's basically the gatekeeper, without an undergrad at minimum, candidates will automatically be disqualified upon application.[/quote]
True enough, but one can make a fine living without a degree.

[Mustang1]

Gunnair Gunnair:

Mustang1 Mustang1:

You can pay off university debt here in Canada. It may take awhile and it may bite some people with inflated senses of worth and unrealistic economic expectations, but it is possible. Some people also don't work and let's be honest, some piss away student loans (and i've got many anecdotal examples) on iPhones, clothes, alcohol, trips and stuff. Multiple that by 4 and yeah, you've got debt.

Yeah, i was wondering about that. I'd be some curious to see an itemized list of costs for someone with $120,000 of debt and see what was pissed away or wasted.

Exactly...and never do they actually ask these people what they spent it on or what their expectations are regarding post-university employment.

I do know, for a fact, many pissed thousands away on stuff that had ZIP to do with education.

Ontario undergrad tuition is still around $5-6,500 + housing (or live at home) + incidentals, so it is still manageable debt. I don't have a lot of sympathy for those that mismanage their money or loans.

[CommanderSock]

$1:

True enough, but one can make a fine living without a degree.

I agree. But you'd have to look at it from the perspective of the college student.

As a kid my parents primed me for university. Going to college, or finishing at high school was simply unacceptable.

Learning a cheap trade (my passion) was simply out of the question. It's pretty much the same for many youth today.

This seems to be a trend among a sizable chunk of youth in Canada today, many of my colleagues were in the same position.

And many hiring managers are like my parents, they view people without degrees as less than. And it seems many managers are like this, and hence we've created a system where without a degree of any kind, you really begin limit your chances of success. Promotions, opportunities, and career growth hit a glass ceiling because the people at the top (already highly educated) won't give you a chance.

It is what it is.

You can make a living, but the chance of flourishing is diminished.

[bootlegga]

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

I worked my way through school too, but still came out with a large debt burden that I had to pay off after.

Working through school will barely fetch minimum wage (I was paid minimum wage). That won't cover the annual cost of tuition.

Working full time while in undergrad school is not advisable IMO.

Yeah, that was pretty much the way it went for me too.

I worked PT during the school year and FT during vacations (Christmas, Reading Week, summer) and never went on trips to Mexico or skiing like most everyone else I knew. But when you're making $6 an hour (granted this was almost 15 years ago), it's hard to make anywhere near enough to pay $4000-5000 in tuition, another $1000 in 'fees', about $1000 in books and then living expense on top of it, it's tough to get by.

And it took me almost a decade to pay off my debt because the jobs I got after graduation paid better than minimum, but in some cases, not much better ($10/hour instead of $6-7).

Still, the thing with an education is that you have to look at as in investment in the long term. Within a decade I was making far more than I ever had before I went to university, so I don't regret it.

The only problem IMHO is that high student debt can have an adverse affect on the economy, simply because people can't jump into the workforce and buy the big consumer items (cars, house/condo, etc) that drive our economy. It's all well and good for older generations to complain about us, but until the mid-90s, governments (federal and provincial) subsidized post-secondary education far more than they do today.

[bootlegga]

Gunnair Gunnair:

And too bad people have bought into the concept that post secondary education is a must have.

You can make as much in a decent trade, likely more depending on the degree.

Yeah, but not everyone is fit for a life in the trades, just like not everyone is fit to get a post secondary degree.

I'm next to useless when it comes to most stuff that other people do all the time (fixing my car, home improvements, etc). I've just never been very good at those sorts of tasks, while using my noggin always came easier.

[Gunnair]

bootlegga bootlegga:

Gunnair Gunnair:

And too bad people have bought into the concept that post secondary education is a must have.

You can make as much in a decent trade, likely more depending on the degree.

Yeah, but not everyone is fit for a life in the trades, just like not everyone is fit to get a post secondary degree.

I'm next to useless when it comes to most stuff that other people do all the time (fixing my car, home improvements, etc). I've just never been very good at those sorts of tasks, while using my noggin always came easier.

Well that's the point. Education is touted as a panacea for all. Frankly, it may remove some of those who were better at trades from the job bank and put them into university to rack up debt.

Some are good for trades, others for brain work. As a society, we place a greater social value on the value of brain work than we do the value of trades. This pushes people into debt that maybe they should not have taken.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

Yep, trades can be highly lucrative. The richest ppl when I lived in Windsor were Tool and Dye ppl and contractors.