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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 1:35 pm
 


Worked so well with China


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 4:07 pm
 


Lemmy wrote:
DrCaleb wrote:
herbie wrote:
I've always felt trade deals with countries that have similar standards to ourselves was preferable (USA, Australia, N Zealand, EU, even Japan) than handing off those values to obtain cheap labour and goods.

Hear hear! In this one, we deal as equals with places like Brunei and Malaysia while ignoring their deplorable human rights and labour standards.

In entering trade deals with countries like these, we are also exporting our values. Those countries will never do better unless we show them the error of their ways. Trade deals give these people the chance to go to work and improve their economic welfare. Once they start to have economic success, then they'll want something better for their kids, so they begin to demand education. And when people are educated, they're much less likely to stand for human rights violations.

And in strictly economic terms, the greater difference between countries, the greater possible benefits from trading.


That is the supposed ideal.
However, experience has shown that in reality WE are being demanded to lower our standards to compete with theirs. Look at the auto sector. How many of you are aware there is now a two-tiered union contract and if you start tomorrow you better hope the NDP wins so you'll get a raise. It's only like $14 0r $14.50 hr. But 90% of people act like its $100 hr.
Spent the last 20 years in the computer business: the cost of the parts shipped from China and dropped at your door exceeds the cost of the entire unit built in China. I only made money from that small group of customers willing to shell out $100 more and who agree that all the 800 numbers and online support isn't fucking service at all.
I might've liked to be able to buy a Holden ute from Australia duty free, but I understand there are no more Australian factories. And I know, being a ripped off Canadian my whole life if they remove the say $2000 duties on a Kia, the price will go down $500 and they'll pocket the rest.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 4:16 pm
 


Pfffft, car building. So yesterday. We certainly don't have the economic advantage there. The only high zoot advantage I've heard about that we have is in financial services. Woop de do. The rest for us, will be even more drawers wood and hewers of water.

I think what Lemmy is talking about is that we'll export or economic advantage to those other countries and it will be our turn to be the the down country. Except for the 1% of course, raking it in from selling our resources cheap. Well, let's be fair, maybe the top 10 or 20 percent will do well.

What I see in all this is a global elite forming that isn't based in any country, but will be the people in the know. The other 80 percent get to be neoserfs. And democracy, as we know it will fade. Of course the whole thing will collapse from overpopulation at some point anyway.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:13 pm
 


martin14 wrote:

:lol:

Ask yourself how much the BNA Act or the Statutes of Westminster were negotiated or
discussed in public.


Ever read Peter B. Waite's The Life And Times Of Confederation: Politics, Newspapers And The Union Of British North America?

The Confederation debates and the BNA act were extensively covered and debated in the public press. Some of the most important Fathers of Confederation even used their own newspapers as party voices, such as George Brown's Globe, George-Etienne Cartier's La Minerve or John A. Macdonald's Mail.

The public got a much better look at the BNA Act in all its development back in the 1860s than we've gotten nowadays from most of these trade deals, which are negotiated in secret with enough security to put the Secret Service to shame and with little to no Parliamentary or Congressional oversight.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:14 pm
 


Well I got married and bought my first house building Kenworths and the wife at Frieghtliner.
In BURNABY, not back east. And I knew people at WesternStar in Kelowna.
I even worked for a while making Sand Buggies for an outfit that exported to the Saudis.
My Dad worked his life as a chemist at a refinery.
I'm not too proud my kids get 'careers' at 7-11
Grew up listening to my Grandpa talking with his immigrant friends and repeating 'thissa country she needs secondary manufacturing and processing', and watched them try to kill what little we had the last 25 years.
FFS they made a rule for these BC LNG plants that they're "manufacturers" and can write down stuff as such. Taking gas out of the ground and shipping it out isn't manufacturing!!!!


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 6:04 am
 


herbie wrote:
Well I got married and bought my first house building Kenworths and the wife at Frieghtliner.


Your wife is a truck?! 8O

;)


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 10:46 am
 


:D No but she drank like a Frieghtliner!


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:07 pm
 


DrCaleb wrote:
herbie wrote:
Well I got married and bought my first house building Kenworths and the wife at Frieghtliner.


Your wife is a truck?! 8O

;)




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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:27 am
 


DrCaleb wrote:
uwish wrote:
FTA with the US, NAFTA they were all done in secrecy. Kind of the point isn't it?


Call me old fashioned, but I like to know up front what my government is doing in my name. I didn't agree with secrecy then, and I don't agree with it now.


Justin hasn't said anything about it, he will let you know sometime now that he is king Justin...


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:33 am
 


Herbie said

"That is the supposed ideal.
However, experience has shown that in reality WE are being demanded to lower our standards to compete with theirs. Look at the auto sector. How many of you are aware there is now a two-tiered union contract and if you start tomorrow you better hope the NDP wins so you'll get a raise. It's only like $14 0r $14.50 hr. But 90% of people act like its $100 hr."

sorry, assembly jobs shouldn't pay $40/hr like the used to..and look at the pension plans..bankrupting the province. No one gets Defined Benefit pension anymore.

I think the current system is more in line with what the job is, standing in a line and screwing parts together...just not that skilled and hence, the pay is now reflecting it.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 5:35 am
 


uwish wrote:
I think the current system is more in line with what the job is, standing in a line and screwing parts together...just not that skilled and hence, the pay is now reflecting it.


There are all kinds of people in management with no skills getting great pay. Some of them are outright failing at their jobs and those salaries are only going up - if workers can't get decent pay then the management shouldn't get it either.


The bottom line is this: the only vehicles that should be available in Canada should be made in Canada. Quality work should keep a person in the job and poor quality work should punt someone. That way quality stays high.

Nobody has tried being protectionist so nobody really knows if it works. Everyone is trying the 'global economy' thing and it only makes rich people richer and makes working people expendable and pushes them further to the bottom.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 5:39 am
 


Gook luck with that agenda, I don't think you want to be the one (nation) going full on protectionism while the rest of the world moves along just fine without you. And let's not pretend that certain industries are protected even somewhat, because that just isn't true.


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