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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 4:10 pm
 


In case anyone wants to watch the full senate hearing:

http://www.help.senate.gov/hearings/hearing/?id=8acab996-5056-a032-522e-e39ca45fcfbe&autoplay=true


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 4:30 pm
 


Americans are far too politically irrational to understand how our system functions compared to theirs. They want to label things to polarize them for political gain. Instead of taking the better parts of healthcare systems in the world and implement them, they make it an us vs them. I've worked in both and there is good and bad in each. Americans pay far too much for what they get and need.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 4:42 pm
 


It's not just Canada that has a good working public health system. It's Japan, Taiwan, S. Korea, the UK, Germany, France, Holland, all of Scandinavia, Belgium, Australia, New Zealand, ... and a host of others. The U.S. is practically all alone out there ... and moving further back all of the time. This is not some sort of experiment, anymore. It is standard in our civilization to give a reasonable base level of medical care to your entire population. It's way beyond "creeping Commie-nism". It is a basic prerequisite to being considered to be a civilized society.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 4:56 pm
 


Actually most of those countries have systems that work better than ours, getting more bang for the buck. In part that seems to be because they are dual systems that have both a public and private component. As well the docs are usually on salary and so earn much less than ours. Plus they usually cover more, like dentistry, the neglect of which can lead to much poorer health. We would do well do look at what those systems are doing better than us too. Unfortunately, with the elephant next door just salivating at privatizing our system, that would be dangerous to do.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 5:29 pm
 


We could end up like them ... millions that are now covered could be excluded from the system ... all for the betterment of Blue Cross. I guess that if it's good for Aetna, it's good for America. (Just like, if it's good for G.M., ...)


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 6:21 pm
 


andyt wrote:
Actually most of those countries have systems that work better than ours, getting more bang for the buck. In part that seems to be because they are dual systems that have both a public and private component. As well the docs are usually on salary and so earn much less than ours. Plus they usually cover more, like dentistry, the neglect of which can lead to much poorer health. We would do well do look at what those systems are doing better than us too. Unfortunately, with the elephant next door just salivating at privatizing our system, that would be dangerous to do.



If you watch the full hearing on the link I posted earlier, Canada is just one of several countries discussed. There is also France, China, Taiwan and Denmark, as well as a couple of Republican apointed hacks from right-wing think tanks that just mostly spewed conservative rhetoric.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:56 am
 


Necro!!! Just to update this story rather than create a new thread:

Quote:
Political parties woo Toronto doctor who delivered rousing defence of Canada’s medicare system in U.S. Senate

Alexander Panetta, Canadian Press | April 6, 2014 10:25 PM ET

Political offers have been pouring in for a doctor who enthusiastically defended the reputation of Canada’s medicare system during some tense exchanges in the U.S. Congress.

Dr. Danielle Martin said she’s been courted by political parties at the municipal, provincial and federal level since her appearance last month enjoyed a moment of viral celebrity.

But it’s clearly not something the Toronto physician, health-policy professor and vice-president of the Women’s College Hospital wants to discuss.

All Martin will say is that she has no interest in the offers, which came from different parties at all three levels of government to run in elections over the next year-and-a-half.


There have been some people who have reached out to me
.
“Certainly there have been some people who have reached out to me on that score,” she said in an interview.

“It helps that there seem to be elections pending at every level of major political office where I live. But I’m not doing that. I’ve got a big job already … I’m happy to offer my advice on health policy to anyone who’s willing to listen.”

Martin said she didn’t expect anyone other than her mom to watch her appearance last month before a U.S. Senate sub-committee.

The audience wound up being considerably larger. It included U.S. cable talk TV and American and Canadian news sites that ran clips from her snappy back-and-forth with Republican lawmakers.


Related
Toronto doctor smacks down U.S. Senate question on Canadian waitlist deaths
What Danielle Martin’s takedown of a GOP Senator tells us about our simplistic North American health care debate
Bill O’Reilly calls Obama’s Between Two Ferns segment ‘desperate’, says ‘Abe Lincoln would not have done it’
.
Martin was invited to testify by the committee chairman, Independent Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders, a self-described socialist who would like to see the U.S. adopt a single-payer system like in Canada, something Vermont is already doing.

Canada’s health system is really run by the provinces, with federal funding, Martin explained, citing research showing better outcomes for cancer and heart patients in Canada at a much lower cost than the U.S. medical system.

That made her a target for Republicans on the committee, but Martin counter-punched with gleeful spontaneity.

Was it true that Canadians were dying because of health rationing? Not as many, she replied, as the 45,000 Americans dying each year in a health-care system rationed on the basis of someone’s ability to pay.

What about those notoriously brutal waiting lists? Another panel member, Canadian-American medicare critic Sally Stipes, had described how her mom died soon after a colonoscopy in Vancouver for which she waited for months.

Waiting lists are a problem, particularly for elective procedures, said Martin, but not one that’s unique to Canada’s single-payer system. For Americans without insurance, she said in a later interview, the waiting list could be forever.

“You know, I waited in line for more than 30 minutes to get into this building today,” she told Republican Sen. Richard Burr.

“And when I arrived in the lobby, I noticed across the hall that there was a second entry point with no lineup whatsoever. Sometimes it’s not actually about the amount of resources that you have, but how you organize [them].”

At one point, the committee chair engaged in some play-acting. Canadians, he said, are well-informed about American politics — perhaps more so than Americans themselves. So are Canadians clamouring for U.S.-style health care?

No, Martin replied, to feigned shock from Sanders. “Is your prime minister a socialist?” he asked jokingly.

“No, sir,” Martin replied, “our prime minister is quite conservative.”

In Canada, she said, support for public health care cuts across party lines. Without specifically naming Stockwell Day or the 2000 federal election, she described how the leader of Canada’s “most-right-wing party” once held up a sign during a TV debate saying, “No Two-Tier Health Care.”

With the expiration of Canada’s 10-year federal-provincial health accord, Martin said she hopes policy-makers take stock of what works and what could be improved, such as getting all provinces to include pharmaceuticals in medicare coverage.

Offering that kind of advice is about the extent of her public aspirations, she said, despite her successful turn on such a big political stage.

“Part of it is the Internet age, and how clips of these things can travel long distances quickly,” she said of the reaction.

“But I also think that part of it is the whole conversation sort of struck a chord with Canadians… Nobody likes to see their system be unfairly criticized or mischaracterized.”


I've heard her on a radio interview since, I have to say her comments and responses are very articulate and insightful...she really seems to know what she's talking about and is able to give full and intelligent response to just about anything the interviewers throw at her.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:20 am
 


Don't know if this has been mentioned before, but Sally Stipes, mentioned above is the other side of this debate. She moved to the states, she says, because our healthcare system is so bad. She's the figurehead of an American, pro-private, healthcare "think tank." She has the papers she puts out written by a contracting firm, since she doesn't have any expertise in the field, just a BA in English.

2 guesses which two brothers are one of the main funders of this "think tank?"


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:53 am
 


BartSimpson wrote:
Sorry. I'm still totally opposed to single payer. If people want to opt out and pay for insurance through a private provider and receive treatment through a private doctor that should be their choice.

And by 'opt out' I mean the people who opt out and choose private care should not be made to pay for government care that they're not going to use.

I shouldn't be forced to pay for schools because my kids are home schooled.

I should not have to pay taxes for police services because I have my own private security.

I shouldn't have to pay taxes for water and sewer lines for everyone else to use as well.

My taxes shouldn't go towards public transportation because I never use public transportation.

My taxes shouldn't subsidize the property churches are on because I don't attend church/believe in God.

My taxes shouldn't pay for roads and highways I'll likely never drive on.


I guess I'll never understand the mind-set that it is perfectly acceptable for private insurance companies to treat the health of a nation's population like it's a tradable commodity.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:04 am
 


This won't be much of a rebuttal for Bart, since he's such a libertarian he probably agrees with all those points. While he's waiting for the Randian utopia tho, he has no problem swilling at the public trough for his pay check tho, including the health care coverage the tax payers supply him.

The radical greens are often rightly accused of hypocrisy for using oil while protesting against it. Seems to me the hard right is just as hypocritical using all those socialist services you mentioned above.


Last edited by andyt on Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:05 am
 


PublicAnimalNo9 wrote:
BartSimpson wrote:
Sorry. I'm still totally opposed to single payer. If people want to opt out and pay for insurance through a private provider and receive treatment through a private doctor that should be their choice.

And by 'opt out' I mean the people who opt out and choose private care should not be made to pay for government care that they're not going to use.


I shouldn't be forced to pay for schools because my kids are home schooled.

I should not have to pay taxes for police services because I have my own private security.

I shouldn't have to pay taxes for water and sewer lines for everyone else to use as well.

My taxes shouldn't go towards public transportation because I never use public transportation.

My taxes shouldn't subsidize the property churches are on because I don't attend church/believe in God.

My taxes shouldn't pay for roads and highways I'll likely never drive on.


I guess I'll never understand the mind-set that it is perfectly acceptable for private insurance companies to treat the health of a nation's population like it's a tradable commodity.


R=UP

And yet if a lefty doesn’t want their taxes to support the US armed forces, they get called out for it. Gotta love the hypocrisy!


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:12 am
 


I don't want to be the customer of a "pay-as-you-go country.

I would rather be a citizen.


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