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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:30 am
 


Martin, who is an expert on health systems and serves as vice-president of the Women’s College Hospital in Toronto, did admit that wait times are a problem in Canada. However, she suggested moving toward further privatization in Canada would actually increase wait times for people in the public system, as happened in Australia.




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Dr. Danielle Martin is about to become a national hero, at least to those who value Canada’s universal health care system.

The Toronto physician was in Washington D.C. Tuesday to speak to a Senate subcommittee about the virtues of the single-payer model employed in Canada, the U.K. and most other Western countries.

But when North Carolina Republican Senator Richard Burr had an opportunity to question Martin, he tried to paint the Canadian system as riddled with inefficiencies that had doctors fleeing in droves.

“Why are doctors exiting the public system in Canada?” Burr asked.

“If I didn’t express myself in a way to make myself understood, I apologize,” Martin noted with a hint of irony. “There are no doctors exiting the public system in Canada, and in fact we see a net influx of physicians from the United States into the Canadian system over the last number of years.”

The most pointed exchange, however, was about Canadians dying due to long wait times for surgeries.

“How many Canadian patients on a waiting list die each year?” Burr asked Martin. “Do you know?”

“I don’t, sir,” said Martin, “but I know that there are 45,000 in America who die waiting because they don’t have insurance at all.”





video


http://o.canada.com/health/danielle-mar ... re-410599/


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:42 am
 


R=UP

A well spoken lady!


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:46 am
 


Sorry. I'm still totally opposed to single payer. If people want to opt out and pay for insurance through a private provider and receive treatment through a private doctor that should be their choice.

And by 'opt out' I mean the people who opt out and choose private care should not be made to pay for government care that they're not going to use.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:09 pm
 


Centre wrote:
Martin, who is an expert on health systems and serves as vice-president of the Women’s College Hospital in Toronto, did admit that wait times are a problem in Canada. However, she suggested moving toward further privatization in Canada would actually increase wait times for people in the public system, as happened in Australia.




Quote:
Dr. Danielle Martin is about to become a national hero, at least to those who value Canada’s universal health care system.

The Toronto physician was in Washington D.C. Tuesday to speak to a Senate subcommittee about the virtues of the single-payer model employed in Canada, the U.K. and most other Western countries.

But when North Carolina Republican Senator Richard Burr had an opportunity to question Martin, he tried to paint the Canadian system as riddled with inefficiencies that had doctors fleeing in droves.

“Why are doctors exiting the public system in Canada?” Burr asked.

“If I didn’t express myself in a way to make myself understood, I apologize,” Martin noted with a hint of irony. “There are no doctors exiting the public system in Canada, and in fact we see a net influx of physicians from the United States into the Canadian system over the last number of years.”

The most pointed exchange, however, was about Canadians dying due to long wait times for surgeries.

“How many Canadian patients on a waiting list die each year?” Burr asked Martin. “Do you know?”

“I don’t, sir,” said Martin, “but I know that there are 45,000 in America who die waiting because they don’t have insurance at all.”





video


http://o.canada.com/health/danielle-mar ... re-410599/



R=UP Great find!


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:14 pm
 


BartSimpson wrote:
Sorry. I'm still totally opposed to single payer. If people want to opt out and pay for insurance through a private provider and receive treatment through a private doctor that should be their choice.

And by 'opt out' I mean the people who opt out and choose private care should not be made to pay for government care that they're not going to use.


It's a perfectly valid choice. But I liken it to public roads.

Nothing saying I can't buy lots of land and build my own private roads, where I can do what I like. But it's cheaper to use the public roads.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:19 pm
 


BartSimpson wrote:
Sorry. I'm still totally opposed to single payer. If people want to opt out and pay for insurance through a private provider and receive treatment through a private doctor that should be their choice.

And by 'opt out' I mean the people who opt out and choose private care should not be made to pay for government care that they're not going to use.



I've heard the real plan is to make such a mess of Obongocare, that Hillary
will be forced to put in a single payer plan.

Any update as to how things are going with the website, costs, signup levels, etc ?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:24 pm
 


BartSimpson wrote:
Sorry. I'm still totally opposed to single payer. If people want to opt out and pay for insurance through a private provider and receive treatment through a private doctor that should be their choice.

And by 'opt out' I mean the people who opt out and choose private care should not be made to pay for government care that they're not going to use.

So "I got mine" health care.

I think their is value in UHC, both in terms of real cost savings for care delivered and in value of having a healthy nation.

It's why I support public services. Then again I'm just a Nationalist Socialists at heart.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:38 pm
 


BartSimpson wrote:
Sorry. I'm still totally opposed to single payer. If people want to opt out and pay for insurance through a private provider and receive treatment through a private doctor that should be their choice.

And by 'opt out' I mean the people who opt out and choose private care should not be made to pay for government care that they're not going to use.


To each their own I suppose, but like any insurance plan, the one with the most participants is the one that's going to be the most affordable and accessible.

Of course, given that you've mentioned more than once on CKA that you're making well over six figures, it's no surprise that you want to pay for your own coverage. The top 5% or 10% or so are the only ones in the USA that have health care outcomes matching or exceeding citizens of most OECD countries. But if you're not making that kind of money, then your health care outcomes are usually worse.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:39 pm
 


martin14 wrote:
BartSimpson wrote:
Sorry. I'm still totally opposed to single payer. If people want to opt out and pay for insurance through a private provider and receive treatment through a private doctor that should be their choice.

And by 'opt out' I mean the people who opt out and choose private care should not be made to pay for government care that they're not going to use.



I've heard the real plan is to make such a mess of Obongocare, that Hillary
will be forced to put in a single payer plan.

Any update as to how things are going with the website, costs, signup levels, etc ?


Yep, that's what Obama gets for instituting a Republican health care program...he should have instituted a single-payer system instead.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:08 pm
 


bootlegga wrote:
To each their own I suppose, but like any insurance plan, the one with the most participants is the one that's going to be the most affordable and accessible.


A principle which is not true in the case of any government monopoly.

bootlegga wrote:
The top 5% or 10% or so are the only ones in the USA that have health care outcomes matching or exceeding citizens of most OECD countries. But if you're not making that kind of money, then your health care outcomes are usually worse.


Our health outcomes are severely impacted by the huge number of immigrants who arrive on our shores with pre-existing conditions and who clog up our emergency rooms in droves. Native born Americans and the children of immigrants have far less disparity in their health care outcomes and their health care outcome data is in line with the developed world.

Which is why I have long sought to have immigrants (and especially illegal immigrants) excluded or at least delineated in our health care data - but then that would make American health care look better and that doesn't serve the purposes of those who would replace what we have with the kind of government-monopoly model that Canada has abandoned.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:13 pm
 


BartSimpson wrote:
bootlegga wrote:
To each their own I suppose, but like any insurance plan, the one with the most participants is the one that's going to be the most affordable and accessible.


A principle which is not true in the case of any government monopoly.

Painting with an awfully broad brush there Bart.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:24 pm
 


BartSimpson wrote:
bootlegga wrote:
To each their own I suppose, but like any insurance plan, the one with the most participants is the one that's going to be the most affordable and accessible.


A principle which is not true in the case of any government monopoly.


Then why does the USA pay 16% of its GDP for health care while Canada spends only 10%?

Things that make you hmmm...


BartSimpson wrote:
bootlegga wrote:
The top 5% or 10% or so are the only ones in the USA that have health care outcomes matching or exceeding citizens of most OECD countries. But if you're not making that kind of money, then your health care outcomes are usually worse.


Our health outcomes are severely impacted by the huge number of immigrants who arrive on our shores with pre-existing conditions and who clog up our emergency rooms in droves. Native born Americans and the children of immigrants have far less disparity in their health care outcomes and their health care outcome data is in line with the developed world.

Which is why I have long sought to have immigrants (and especially illegal immigrants) excluded or at least delineated in our health care data - but then that would make American health care look better and that doesn't serve the purposes of those who would replace what we have with the kind of government-monopoly model that Canada has abandoned.


That's odd, because Canada has a higher percentage of foreign born residents than the USA and our costs are less than yours.

USA has 11.2% of foreign born;

http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/censussta ... gnborn.htm

Even if the 11 million or so illegals aren't included in that number, you barely get to 15%...

Meanwhile in Canada;

More than one-fifth of Canadians are foreign-born: National Household Survey

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/pol ... e11778258/


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:54 pm
 


The problem is that illegals are by law included in our health care outcome data. For now they do not count in the census, but they do count in health care outcome data.

And we have far more immigrants and illegal immigrants than you do and we also allow more sick people to immigrate than you do. Hell, I only WISH our immigration controls were as tight as yours!


http://www.census.gov/how/infographics/ ... _born.html


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:30 pm
 


Oh man this is like Rick Mercer had a wet dream about Molson while sleeping at a hockey rink I'm gonna grab some popcorn and watch the rest of this thread.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 3:18 pm
 


Sorry. I'm still totally opposed to single payer.

You make it sound as if it is some sort of fringe experiment. It's been a done deal for decades here and everywhere else in the developed world except in the United States. It ain't perfect but it is far beyond the experimental.


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