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Do you support an Aboriginal State?
Yes  14%  [ 4 ]
No  76%  [ 22 ]
Undecided  0%  [ 0 ]
I don't care, one way or the other  10%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 29

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:30 am
 


Scott, why not run this up the flagpole of the nearest First Nation to your house and see what kind of reception you'd get? You going to do another trail of tears as you forcibly remove natives from their traditional homelands and force them into this new nation of yours? Try this idea on some natives and you'll get scalped.

I have thought tho of setting aside a chunk of empty Canada where anybody can go that wants to live in the "traditional way." No white man inventions allowed. Open to natives and any white acolytes who want to give it a try. But you get once chance at it - if you come back out cause you can't hack it, you have to STF up about that traditional ways crap, adapt to our modern world and get on with it.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:38 am
 


Brenda wrote:
If he is discriminating, he should be discriminated against. Just sayin.

It's funny btw, first he wants a1 government for the whole world, wants to take out Islam, and now he wants 1 country for all Natives. I don't know about you, but this all sounds like segregation with a touch of Hitler to me.


Are you always this awesome? :D



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:40 am
 


People tell me we already have an aboriginal state; Mexico

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I bet this guy fights for Spanish education in schools and doesn't mind spitting on Mexico's Mayan population.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:43 am
 


CDN_PATRIOT wrote:
Brenda wrote:
If he is discriminating, he should be discriminated against. Just sayin.

It's funny btw, first he wants a1 government for the whole world, wants to take out Islam, and now he wants 1 country for all Natives. I don't know about you, but this all sounds like segregation with a touch of Hitler to me.


Are you always this awesome? :D



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:01 am
 


DanSC wrote:
People tell me we already have an aboriginal state; Mexico

Image

I bet this guy fights for Spanish education in schools and doesn't mind spitting on Mexico's Mayan population.


And, by the look of it, that is no pure blood indio. Is he going to send part of himself home as well.

In BC, native land claims total more than 100% of the land mass, so there's really no room for the white man here, either. Just be sure to keep sending the welfare check when you move back to Europe.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:09 am
 


I bet he doesn't realize who sent those Europeans in 1492 either.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:03 am
 


Gunnair wrote:
Scott Yee wrote:
Work with the U.S. and Canadian governments on creating an Aboriginal State within North America for Native Americans. If not for the European colonization, aboriginals would have their own nation.


True, though you make it sound like they were gypped out by colonization. What makes you think they'd be any better off?

Without colonization all the positive things that natives benefit from, such as increased standard of living, better health care, better housing, longer life expectancy, lower infant mortality - even if these aspects are below the Canadian standard they are well above most other more primitive societies,would not have occurred, just like the negative things. They'd likely be still existing in their largely agrarian or hunter gatherer cultures unless you suppose that miraculously they would have developed into a modern 21st century western culture without European influence.

Plus in Canada almost all of the land was gained through legal treaties in which the natives knew exactly what they were signing and often times actually came to the government to ask for one. The only issue up for debate currently is the parts Canada broke, the compensation for the breaks and what the treaties mean in today's world.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 12:31 pm
 


jeff744 wrote:
Gunnair wrote:
Scott Yee wrote:
Work with the U.S. and Canadian governments on creating an Aboriginal State within North America for Native Americans. If not for the European colonization, aboriginals would have their own nation.


True, though you make it sound like they were gypped out by colonization. What makes you think they'd be any better off?

Without colonization all the positive things that natives benefit from, such as increased standard of living, better health care, better housing, longer life expectancy, lower infant mortality - even if these aspects are below the Canadian standard they are well above most other more primitive societies,would not have occurred, just like the negative things. They'd likely be still existing in their largely agrarian or hunter gatherer cultures unless you suppose that miraculously they would have developed into a modern 21st century western culture without European influence.

Plus in Canada almost all of the land was gained through legal treaties in which the natives knew exactly what they were signing and often times actually came to the government to ask for one. The only issue up for debate currently is the parts Canada broke, the compensation for the breaks and what the treaties mean in today's world.


Agreed. Let's not forget the treaties that are being broken by the natives right now as well. A lot of attention is on the Fraser river and what's being done with the salmon these days.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 12:43 pm
 


jeff744 wrote:
Gunnair wrote:
Scott Yee wrote:
Work with the U.S. and Canadian governments on creating an Aboriginal State within North America for Native Americans. If not for the European colonization, aboriginals would have their own nation.


True, though you make it sound like they were gypped out by colonization. What makes you think they'd be any better off?

Without colonization all the positive things that natives benefit from, such as increased standard of living, better health care, better housing, longer life expectancy, lower infant mortality - even if these aspects are below the Canadian standard they are well above most other more primitive societies,would not have occurred, just like the negative things. They'd likely be still existing in their largely agrarian or hunter gatherer cultures unless you suppose that miraculously they would have developed into a modern 21st century western culture without European influence.

Plus in Canada almost all of the land was gained through legal treaties in which the natives knew exactly what they were signing and often times actually came to the government to ask for one. The only issue up for debate currently is the parts Canada broke, the compensation for the breaks and what the treaties mean in today's world.


Not in BC tho. Hence the overlapping claims of BC natives to more than 100% of the BC's landmass.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 3:35 pm
 


How would this proposed state differ from Oklahoma?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 4:14 pm
 


Psudo wrote:
How would this proposed state differ from Oklahoma?


Oklahoma exists.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 4:22 pm
 


Scott Yee wrote:
Work with the U.S. and Canadian governments on creating an Aboriginal State within North America for Native Americans. If not for the European colonization, aboriginals would have their own nation.

The size of the new state will depend on how many native groups decide that they want to form a new nation, as they will have to give up their current land in exchange for land in the new Aboriginal State.

Every native group will vote on whether or not they wish to join. If they do, then later they will vote on the name of the country, the type of government they wish to have, official language, and then finally have elections.

All native groups of the same ethnicity will have all their land put together to form a province within the new nation. The name of the province will be that of the groups ethnicity, and each province will keep their own customs, traditions, and language.

Every native group that chooses to stay as is, will then become normal land owners, therefore losing their native status, and having to integrate into society.

One part of North America that could easily be turned into an Aboriginal State is in Northern Canada. Northern Canada includes three territories, (Yukon, Northwest Territories, & Nunavut) with a combined population of over 100,000, with 51% of the population being Aboriginal.

Northern Canada also includes parts of the Arctic. If that were to happen, depending on the size of the new state, non-aboriginals living in any area that becomes part of the new Aboriginal State, will either be granted citizenship in the new state, while keeping their Canadian citizenship, and their property, or they will have to move.

(If it is Northern Canada, Canada will get compensation from the U.S. for each U.S. band that chooses to join.)

Now that I have time I will give you a list of reasons this will never happen

1) By declaring independence they sever all payments that they get while in Canada, they lose all benefits and no longer receive funding of any sort.

2) Reserves are often times a place of poverty even with current government funding, combine that with reason 1 and you will rapidly see a massive decrease in education and massive increase in poverty.

3) By declaring independence they lose all protection that Canada offers including police and military support. If they wanted help they would be expected to pay for it, combine with 1 and 2 and you will see that they will not have the money to look after policing, they likely wouldn't have any ability to support their welfare programs.

4) If they gained independence they would be a scattered group lands calling themselves one nation, they would have to fund programs for each region instead of being able to fund centralized programs that everyone can get to while minimizing costs.

5) Urban Reserves are by far the richest but they are located in cities, they would lose all benefits that the city provides and all infrastructure would be placed on them to look after. These urban areas are generally low level commercial (gas station, convenience store, etc) mixed with residential meaning their income would be primarily income taxes.

6) Most reserves are located on land barely suitable for agriculture, few if any actually have natural resources, in fact many rely on using land they gave up for their income, this means they have little to nothing to rely on to provide additional income. They also lack industrial bases so they cannot make money from manufacturing our resources and selling them back.

In the end they have nothing to gain from independence and would soon crawl back to us when they ran out of money and could not even afford to pay their government or build the needed infrastructure for one to function in.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 4:40 pm
 


Who ruined our perfect score?!


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 4:50 pm
 


Sure. I'd support it. You can have Isle Royale in Lake Superior. It's centrally located, and no one appears to be using it.

Good luck. (re-read Jeff's post if you haven't already)

DanSC wrote:
I bet he doesn't realize who sent those Europeans in 1492 either.


I'll bet he forgets that they were thousands of years late too. The Thule from Siberia came over a thousand years before that and wiped out the Clovis People, and the Dorset/Tuniit and kicked out the Vikings from when Eric the Red and his kin were colonizing Greenland and Newfoundland.

So, if we give the Innu and all the others their own country, because they conquered it from the previous inhabitants, we recognize the Right of Conquest. Therefore we recognize European Right of Conquest, and there is no need to divide anything up based on 'racial' lines.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:03 pm
 


We already sort of have an Aboriginal state. It's called Nunavut.


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