[Scape]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Brenda Brenda:

They have their spendings. 2 wars are not cheap and someone has to pay for it.
It's not like a normal household that can say "we are going to eat mac and cheese for a month, and all will be good". Roads still have to be maintained, debt interest has to be paid, social security checks have to be paid. If you want to clean up the act of the government, that you ALL profit from, you ALL have to pitch in.

1. We do not all 'profit' from government.

2. What we can do is eliminate subsidies to immigrants, eliminate welfare grants to able bodied people, end subsidies of all sorts to all private businesses from farms to factories to Wall Street, stop using the Social Security payments from working people to support non-working people, close all of our overseas bases and abandon the wars, end every single tax loophole, end all foreign aid, and end all of the 'free trade' agreements whose principle exports have been jobs, and end every single last social program that transfers wealth from one person to another.

3. Roads are supposed to be maintained from fuel taxes but the politicians have been stealing that money and giving it to their pet constituencies for decades.

4. I agree that everyone should 'pitch in' and that can best start by ending our tax system in which near 50% of the people pay nothing and imposing a single, fair, flat tax that everyone will pay be they high income or low income.

Careful Bart, you are going to lose more contracts.

[Gunnair]

[Canadian_Mind]

[Thanos]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Brenda Brenda:

They have their spendings. 2 wars are not cheap and someone has to pay for it.
It's not like a normal household that can say "we are going to eat mac and cheese for a month, and all will be good". Roads still have to be maintained, debt interest has to be paid, social security checks have to be paid. If you want to clean up the act of the government, that you ALL profit from, you ALL have to pitch in.

1. We do not all 'profit' from government.

2. What we can do is eliminate subsidies to immigrants, eliminate welfare grants to able bodied people, end subsidies of all sorts to all private businesses from farms to factories to Wall Street, stop using the Social Security payments from working people to support non-working people, close all of our overseas bases and abandon the wars, end every single tax loophole, end all foreign aid, and end all of the 'free trade' agreements whose principle exports have been jobs, and end every single last social program that transfers wealth from one person to another.

3. Roads are supposed to be maintained from fuel taxes but the politicians have been stealing that money and giving it to their pet constituencies for decades.

4. I agree that everyone should 'pitch in' and that can best start by ending our tax system in which near 50% of the people pay nothing and imposing a single, fair, flat tax that everyone will pay be they high income or low income.

1) Agreed, but we all benefit to some degree from what government does. Government has to do those necessary things that private business won't do because there's no profit in it. And, as opposed to the guiding mantra that animates you and the other right-wingers in your country, just because there's no profit in it doesn't mean that something can't, or shouldn't, be done. Wrap your head around this and attack me for it all you want afterwards: sometimes there's more important considerations than money.

2) Agreed. Rid the system of the leeches. That includes all the corporatists who've been shedding American jobs for decades and wouldn't even be in business at all right now if it weren't for government subsidies and tax breaks propping them up. Go after every single business parasite with the exact same fervour, if not more, as you like to go after the ghetto welfare addicts that you've allowed yourself to believe are the worst thing afflicting America right now.

3) Agreed. Canada is a victim of the same fiscal affliction. Dedicated taxes absolutely have to be used on what they were designed to support, rather than ending up in the morass of "general revenues" that are abused and raped by politicians of all stripes in order to placate their selected demographics and supporters.

4) Agreed, with one exception. Maintain the graduated system of taxes only for those below the poverty line. A 10% flat tax means absolutely nothing to someone making a hundred grand or a million per year. But it could mean all the difference between paying rent, buying food, and providing food for the kids for someone below $25K per year who's already living on the edge. Flat tax, sure, but don't expect the same level of sacrifice from those who can only contribute the least. Fair is fair, after all, and pity and mercy are not things that should be discarded or banished as easily as the fiscal "conservatives" in your country want such concepts stricken from the face of the earth.

I'm done now. Go ahead and attack me. Call me a Communist or whatever turns your crank. You know that you really want to.

[Proculation]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Proculation Proculation:

I certainly not 'profit' from government as I pay much more than I receive while I have to put money aside for my 'old days' since there won't be any left. So I pay for myself and for the others who made bad choices. And I am obligated by law to do that.

You would prefer Dickensian London, perhaps?

Who ?

[martin14]

Thanos Thanos:

4) Agreed, with one exception. Maintain the graduated system of taxes only for those below the poverty line. A 10% flat tax means absolutely nothing to someone making a hundred grand or a million per year. But it could mean all the difference between paying rent, buying food, and providing food for the kids for someone below $25K per year who's already living on the edge. Flat tax, sure, but don't expect the same level of sacrifice from those who can only contribute the least. Fair is fair, after all, and pity and mercy are not things that should be discarded or banished as easily as the fiscal "conservatives" in your country want such concepts stricken from the face of the earth.

That defeats the purpose of a flat tax in the first place.


at 10%;
25k means 2,500 in tax
100k means 10,000 in tax.
1 million means 100,000 in tax.


Now who's paying what now ?

Considering the million dollar baby probably can hide what he wants and not
pay any tax, it's a fundamental, fair, and good shift.

What needs to be closed is the loopholes.


I have seen this process work.

[herbie]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Brenda Brenda:

They have their spendings. 2 wars are not cheap and someone has to pay for it.
It's not like a normal household that can say "we are going to eat mac and cheese for a month, and all will be good". Roads still have to be maintained, debt interest has to be paid, social security checks have to be paid. If you want to clean up the act of the government, that you ALL profit from, you ALL have to pitch in.

1. We do not all 'profit' from government.

2. What we can do is eliminate subsidies to immigrants, eliminate welfare grants to able bodied people, end subsidies of all sorts to all private businesses from farms to factories to Wall Street, stop using the Social Security payments from working people to support non-working people, close all of our overseas bases and abandon the wars, end every single tax loophole, end all foreign aid, and end all of the 'free trade' agreements whose principle exports have been jobs, and end every single last social program that transfers wealth from one person to another.

3. Roads are supposed to be maintained from fuel taxes but the politicians have been stealing that money and giving it to their pet constituencies for decades.

4. I agree that everyone should 'pitch in' and that can best start by ending our tax system in which near 50% of the people pay nothing and imposing a single, fair, flat tax that everyone will pay be they high income or low income.

And change the name to United States of Assholes while you do that.
Cut Grampa's pension. Let people starve on the streets. Give them a Constitutional right to own guns and find out like the Czar did what happens.
Or pay some goddam taxes. If any country REALLY NEEDS TO HAVE GST, it's the US. Then everyone will get dinged.

[PostFactum]

$1:

$10,000 - Approximately one year of work for the average human on earth.

What idiot was writing this? "Average" for me means 7 years of work to collect this money if I won't be buying something, eating etc.

[Canadian_Mind]

PostFactum PostFactum:

$1:

$10,000 - Approximately one year of work for the average human on earth.

What idiot was writing this? "Average" for me means 7 years of work to collect this money if I won't be buying something, eating etc.

You only make $1300 per year?

[martin14]

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

PostFactum PostFactum:

$1:

$10,000 - Approximately one year of work for the average human on earth.

What idiot was writing this? "Average" for me means 7 years of work to collect this money if I won't be buying something, eating etc.

You only make $1300 per year?

If he is working for the state, fresh out of school......... yes.

[PostFactum]

No martin, that's payement of young lawyer for 8 hour day. 150 usa dollars per month for the state and 200 if you work for private owner.

[bootlegga]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

bootlegga bootlegga:

The reason the stalemate in the States is so bad is that each party expects the other party's demographic to take the hit.

Yes and no.

The Democrats want higher taxes just as a general principle.

The Republicans would be happy to merely appear like they did something important all while actually avoiding doing anything too important.

The Tea Party folks want the spending spree to end because the reality is that the US is about to go Greek with our debt exceeding 100% of GDP. They're the only ones who realize that both the Democrat and Republican plans lead to disaster because both plans don't do anything to stop spending and it's the spending that's the real problem.

Sorry, but as I see it, everyone wants their interests to get money and doesn't care if anyone else gets anything. The Dems want social programs, the Republicans tax cuts and the Tea Party wants defence spending.

The issue isn't really to stop spending, but to stop funding the other party's stuff.

[bootlegga]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

1. We do not all 'profit' from government.

2. What we can do is eliminate subsidies to immigrants, eliminate welfare grants to able bodied people, end subsidies of all sorts to all private businesses from farms to factories to Wall Street, stop using the Social Security payments from working people to support non-working people, close all of our overseas bases and abandon the wars, end every single tax loophole, end all foreign aid, and end all of the 'free trade' agreements whose principle exports have been jobs, and end every single last social program that transfers wealth from one person to another.

3. Roads are supposed to be maintained from fuel taxes but the politicians have been stealing that money and giving it to their pet constituencies for decades.

4. I agree that everyone should 'pitch in' and that can best start by ending our tax system in which near 50% of the people pay nothing and imposing a single, fair, flat tax that everyone will pay be they high income or low income.

Tack on reducing defence spending to the point that it's only the equivalent of the top 5 nations in the world and maybe you'll be onto something (right now it's equal to the top dozen or so). Otherwise, your platform is nothing more than typical conservative doctrine.

As an ally, I prefer the Americans retain their worldwide reach and technological advantages they have over potential adversaries, but spending $700 billion a year on defence is verging on the insane. I'm sure that $400-500 billion would more than suffice - as long as America stops getting involved in wars all over the world. If the US slows defence spending, then its allies will find it necessary to increase theirs (like Canada and Australia have done over the past decade).

[bootlegga]

Thanos Thanos:

1) Agreed, but we all benefit to some degree from what government does. Government has to do those necessary things that private business won't do because there's no profit in it. And, as opposed to the guiding mantra that animates you and the other right-wingers in your country, just because there's no profit in it doesn't mean that something can't, or shouldn't, be done. Wrap your head around this and attack me for it all you want afterwards: sometimes there's more important considerations than money.

2) Agreed. Rid the system of the leeches. That includes all the corporatists who've been shedding American jobs for decades and wouldn't even be in business at all right now if it weren't for government subsidies and tax breaks propping them up. Go after every single business parasite with the exact same fervour, if not more, as you like to go after the ghetto welfare addicts that you've allowed yourself to believe are the worst thing afflicting America right now.

3) Agreed. Canada is a victim of the same fiscal affliction. Dedicated taxes absolutely have to be used on what they were designed to support, rather than ending up in the morass of "general revenues" that are abused and raped by politicians of all stripes in order to placate their selected demographics and supporters.

4) Agreed, with one exception. Maintain the graduated system of taxes only for those below the poverty line. A 10% flat tax means absolutely nothing to someone making a hundred grand or a million per year. But it could mean all the difference between paying rent, buying food, and providing food for the kids for someone below $25K per year who's already living on the edge. Flat tax, sure, but don't expect the same level of sacrifice from those who can only contribute the least. Fair is fair, after all, and pity and mercy are not things that should be discarded or banished as easily as the fiscal "conservatives" in your country want such concepts stricken from the face of the earth.

I'm done now. Go ahead and attack me. Call me a Communist or whatever turns your crank. You know that you really want to.

Some good ideas here too - quite fair and balanced (especially #4).

Again, if this was instituted south of the border, I'd want reduced defence spending as well.

[Psudo]

Brenda Brenda:

If you want to cut spending, first you do is bring your debt down.

Why that order? If you eliminate debt while spending in deficits, you just recreate the debt. If you balance the budget first, the debt becomes stable. It might not even need to be paid off if it merely shrinks as a proportion of GDP over time.