[Lemmy]

Jonny_C Jonny_C:

We kids used to swear (when we thought we could get away with it). Most of us outgrew it.

Actually, no, most of "us" didn't. You may have. But drop by the corner bar or the arena or even the Legion (where profanity is banned, but is rampant out of earshot of the barkeep). The fact is that "fuckin' this" and "fuckin' that" and "fuck you" and "fuck off" and "fuckin' A, man" is the language of the people. You're living in fantasyland if you think most of the people you went to highschool have tamed their vernacular down very much. BTW, where I live "Fuck you" is a greeting and drinking cheer. "Go fuck yourself" means something altogether different.

[Gunnair]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Jonny_C Jonny_C:

We kids used to swear (when we thought we could get away with it). Most of us outgrew it.

Actually, no, most of "us" didn't. You may have. But drop by the corner bar or the arena or even the Legion (where profanity is banned, but is rampant out of earshot of the barkeep). The fact is that "fuckin' this" and "fuckin' that" and "fuck you" and "fuck off" and "fuckin' A, man" is the language of the people. You're living in fantasyland if you think most of the people you went to highschool have tamed their vernacular down very much. BTW, where I live "Fuck you" is a greeting and drinking cheer. "Go fuck yourself" means something altogether different.

Granted, I'm surrounded by sailors, but no one, including the women, are shy of using the language of the quarterdeck.

I would guess it's similar with a lot of blue collar industry.

[Jonny_C]

Lemmy Lemmy:

The fact is that "fuckin' this" and "fuckin' that" and "fuck you" and "fuck off" and "fuckin' A, man" is the language of the people.

That's more a commentary on where you live and who you hang around with. It's only the language of *some* people.

I can go for days with neighbours, friends, and out in the community without hearing "fuck" even once.

Different story out in bars where people are drinking, or when you get a bunch of guys together to watch a football game or something.

Granted there will be some people who use the word around women and kids at a hockey rink or some such. If you like that idea, and gleefully join in because it's "the language of the people", that's up to you.

I've told you what I think of it. You are free to disagree.

[Strutz]

So... I voted for "other"... guess I'll have to explain...

Bodah - I see your point entirely on this subject and I understand why you brought this up to begin with. After reading all these pages of this thread it's obvious that no separate thread will be developed for people to bitch at each other in so...

I could quote and respond to several posts but that would be exhausting so instead I'll just state my opinion, for what it's worth, yet I know that means little to most of you. That's what I get for being busy today and not following the progress on this thread.

Going back to page one of this thread where Bodah points out the hostility... VERY valid point. I've been around a few years, and yes, I know I'm not the most active poster but I certainly see the hostility around here and I really sometimes hate it and it is what drives me away for days or weeks at a time, not that anyone notices or cares. Mods aside, this forum is to a certain extent controlled by select members of this forum. I KNOW better than to even think about posting in some threads. Fine... call it a weakness or whatever on me, but I know where the majority is at around here. Opinions outside of where the "majority" is tend to get alot of negative feedback. Just the way it is. But I can certainly understand why it would discourage newcomers from contributing. And IMO some members get away with things that others (myself included) would not get away with. And I mean no disrespect to the mods on this... again, it`s just the way it is.

Some very valid and interesting threads get so derailed and side-lined by personal insults that they become irrelevant and not worth contributing to even when I feel I have something to say. It`s too bad that there are those who can`t open their minds just a little bit to accept that not everyone sees things the way they do.

[Public_Domain]

I love the results of this poll.

[Public_Domain]

The thing is, here, we aren't all kids. We should be able to handle it, or rather (more importantly) not care at all about it.

I've been subject to plenty of bullshit insults here, and I try to keep most rude language to myself, even when shit is thrown in my face. I try to be more passive aggressive or self-deprecating, rather than doing what I've seen many do here: claim there's a systematic failure in the social code of the forum and its morality that allows for a group of elitist aggressive members to shut down and insult the many others with the cheerleading of other 'superior' members. That sentiment is nonsense, and it's not true. The fact is that it's rather quite personal when it's not a newbie (when it is a newbie it's more just a sudden reaction to a violation to the Mafia-like respectability this community demands god dammit), and as such can't be taken all to seriously as an opinion past the one who expresses it. It's usually off-the-cuff and crass, but who cares? I haven't been called retarded in a while (like a week or something, ) so I like to believe that's because I myself have been able to improve my ability to discuss things, as well as ignore the insults enough to force the discussion along MY lines, rather than derailing it with the semantics of 'insults'.

A lot of the rude things people have said to me have made me honestly laugh - not passive aggressively, but rather because they were honestly funny. I know it's not true, so it's hardly anything more than what a comedian would say, why should I be hurt? I learnt young that reaction is the fuel for the joy people take in insulting others. If it is so much of a concern for you, don't fuel it. And never think change is out of the equation. I'm not some fucking darling child of the forum or something, I've tried to make my presence work here after several years of being perfect bait and creating legitimate reasons for discontent. I like to believe I've at least somewhat succeeded in reducing how irritating I've been, and thus reduced just how often I'm put down.

The hostility here has been bad on occasion. Yet, I remain. Why? Who knows. Why do any of us stay, when there's so much to bitch about? Because we can get over it, perhaps.

If it seems the whole world is coming down on you, maybe you're standing in the wrong spot.

[OnTheIce]

Gunnair Gunnair:

You're another one that has not been shy to engage in some name calling and tossing of insults. Your frequency may be lower, but you sure do love a fight.

Why take umbrage now?

First, I think you should refer back and check into my posting history. I rarely insult people or call them names.

I enjoy a debate and conversation with people.

I have always taken umbrage with people resorting to insults and name calling.

Throwing around a "moron" here and there isn't the problem. The problem here is incessant name-calling and insults to anyone who dares to challenge or have an opinion outside the norm.

[Gunnair]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Gunnair Gunnair:

You're another one that has not been shy to engage in some name calling and tossing of insults. Your frequency may be lower, but you sure do love a fight.

Why take umbrage now?

First, I think you should refer back and check into my posting history. I rarely insult people or call them names.

I enjoy a debate and conversation with people.

I have always taken umbrage with people resorting to insults and name calling.

Throwing around a "moron" here and there isn't the problem. The problem here is incessant name-calling and insults to anyone who dares to challenge or have an opinion outside the norm.

Noted. I'll be sure to remind you of this post, friend.

[Gunnair]

Alright this is the third time I try writing a response and losing it.....

Personal insults are a symptom of the deeper boorish behavior that can be seen here but seems to equally get a by. If there is actual concern about why new folks don't stick around, take a look posting in general.

There is a proclivity of many posters to post their attacks any groups in general, be they political, religious, racial, full knowing that members of those groups post here. We are a very diverse group here and everyone knows it. Yet they also post their divisive attacks irrespective of who gets caught up in it.

Conservatives are heartless idiots? That's not a personal insult many would say even though it's made full knowing that there are conservatives here.

Libtards? Not an insult supposedly even though there are liberals here.

Religious people are dumb because they believe in sparkle ponies? That's not insulting the religious people of the forum, right?

Atheists are unimaginative bigots? Well, present company excluded of course.

New comers may roll through the threads and take exception to the use of idiot, moron, shitiot, but I'll wager they take as much exception to all of the anti-Muslim threads, the conservatives are bad threads, liberals are idiots threads, religious people are suckers threads, too many immigrants here threads, etc.

As far as I'm concerned, posters belong those groups are insulted just as if it was up front and personal. I rather think it's a bit worse as the poster making such offensive generalizations is either too thoughtless to realize that posters will be swept up in their insult, or they don't care but this is a great way to sneak in a shot without overtly doing it.

I get some people call it debating, but calling out libtards when arguing with Andy or Jeff is nor more debating than calling Andy or Jeff libtards to their face.

Same with all of the Muslim bashing. Funny how DD gets insulted by that.

Also funny that if called on that, many will resort to the free speech argument or the PC talk is bullshit argument.

Convenient I think.

Frankly, if everyone here is looking for a more positive forum, then be prepared to move beyond the facade of personal insults that is hiding the far more boorish behavior beneath it.

[OnTheIce]

Gunnair Gunnair:

Frankly, if everyone here is looking for a more positive forum, then be prepared to move beyond the facade of personal insults that is hiding the far more boorish behavior beneath it.

I don't believe you fight boorish behaviour with boorish behaviour. It doesn't help and it brings the general quality of debate into the gutter.

Someone may generalize and insult someone in passing but IMO, that doesn't call for grown men and women throwing around insults because they have been insulted.

[Jonny_C]

Mr_Canada Mr_Canada:

If it seems the whole world is coming down on you, maybe you're standing in the wrong spot.

Really well done post, Mr. C.

[bootlegga]

I said no because I think that while it's well-intentioned, I think it's next to impossible to enforce 24/7/365.

[Gunnair]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Gunnair Gunnair:

Frankly, if everyone here is looking for a more positive forum, then be prepared to move beyond the facade of personal insults that is hiding the far more boorish behavior beneath it.

I don't believe you fight boorish behaviour with boorish behaviour. It doesn't help and it brings the general quality of debate into the gutter.

Someone may generalize and insult someone in passing but IMO, that doesn't call for grown men and women throwing around insults because they have been insulted.

That's a finger wagging at one and mostly a by on the other.

I wonder which one you regularly engage in?

[OnTheIce]

Gunnair Gunnair:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Gunnair Gunnair:

Frankly, if everyone here is looking for a more positive forum, then be prepared to move beyond the facade of personal insults that is hiding the far more boorish behavior beneath it.

I don't believe you fight boorish behaviour with boorish behaviour. It doesn't help and it brings the general quality of debate into the gutter.

Someone may generalize and insult someone in passing but IMO, that doesn't call for grown men and women throwing around insults because they have been insulted.

That's a finger wagging at one and mostly a by on the other.

I wonder which one you regularly engage in?

If you disagree with someone, you don't have to ham-fist the situation with insults; just laugh and walk away...or maybe, just make a comment expressing your displeasure without the insults.

Fighting insults with insults doesn't work...it degrades the conversation further.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

The only gracious way to accept an insult is to ignore it; if you can't ignore it, top it; if you can't top it, laugh at it; if you can't laugh at it, it's probably deserved.


J. Russel Lynes