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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 4:16 am
 


harzer_knaller harzer_knaller:
There are actually Canadians who don't like/love Canada?
WHY?


We beat on Teenaged Soccer/Football Players!!!!! :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 5:03 am
 


Yes there are SOME Canadians who don't like Canada.

In many cases they haven't travelled outside of Canada, so they don't have a personal yardstick to measure with. They also tend to be of the left wing, politically and suffer from a stunted point of view when it comes to the best parts of being a Canadian citizen.

Nothing expands the mind like international travel, they say. In my case it helped me to realise just how fortunate we are , here in Canada, to live in such a peaceful and polite society. Exposure to other cultures and places is important, to gently re-inforce what a great country Canada really is.

Finally, Canada does have a very good International reputation, based on our consistently maintained neutrality and our practice of "helping nations, with out political strings attached to our foreign aid money ". Quietly going about the business of, for instance , placing water pumps in african villages, to provide drinking water , is just one example of how we make friends, without any fanfare.

Jim B. Toronto.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 11:49 am
 


harzer_knaller harzer_knaller:
There are actually Canadians who don't like/love Canada?
WHY?
Because they are ungrateful assholes. :(

And because the schools teach nothing about this country.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:36 am
 


Mr Canada:

I suggest that the problem is with the people who decide WHAT to teach, not those who actually teach it. The ones who make the decisions re the history material are mainly a product of our Universites and they tend to come out with a strong leftist attitude, both about our history and how it should be "interpreted to the masses".

If I was the Minister of Education in Ontario, I'd institute a complete re-vamping of the whole school system, with a much greater emphasis on actual learning of fatcts and less on " dreamy stuff" like saving the planet at age 6. Imagine a generation of kids who can spell properly, and are able to write, with a pen, and have it be "readable '? Further imagine a generation of kids who actually think of themselves as " Canadians" without a hyphen, because they are PROUD of being a Canadian?

Canada has some of the most amazing and colourful past , BUT it is not being presented in a way that is engaging and or fun. THAT is some of the problem as I see it.

And lastly, I'd make all of Pierre Berton's history books MANDATORY reading in our schools. And every body has to PASS the year, or they repeat , untill they do pass it. That makes a high school graduation certificate actually WORTH something, instead of the farce we have now.

JIm B. Toronto.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:28 am
 


jimbunting jimbunting:
Mr Canada:

I suggest that the problem is with the people who decide WHAT to teach, not those who actually teach it. The ones who make the decisions re the history material are mainly a product of our Universites and they tend to come out with a strong leftist attitude, both about our history and how it should be "interpreted to the masses".

If I was the Minister of Education in Ontario, I'd institute a complete re-vamping of the whole school system, with a much greater emphasis on actual learning of fatcts and less on " dreamy stuff" like saving the planet at age 6. Imagine a generation of kids who can spell properly, and are able to write, with a pen, and have it be "readable '? Further imagine a generation of kids who actually think of themselves as " Canadians" without a hyphen, because they are PROUD of being a Canadian?

Canada has some of the most amazing and colourful past , BUT it is not being presented in a way that is engaging and or fun. THAT is some of the problem as I see it.

And lastly, I'd make all of Pierre Berton's history books MANDATORY reading in our schools. And every body has to PASS the year, or they repeat , untill they do pass it. That makes a high school graduation certificate actually WORTH something, instead of the farce we have now.

JIm B. Toronto.


Perhaps you should read the actual Ontario curriculum as its expectations are quite varied and don't necessarily reflect one school of thought (nor is based solely on university input as teachers often serve as coordinators and authors). In fact, history was deemed so important in secondary curriculum that civics was removed from the former Canadian history expectations and offered up as a stand alone mandatory 1/2 credit. The current history secondary curriculum is quite challenging (and its required for graduation) as it explores military/political, social/cultural and economic themes while simultaneously expecting students to become familiar with historical methodology and basic historiography. I'd say that's a step in the right direction for addressing this province's current historical unawarenesses

Lastly, Berton?!?!? Come on, this is hardly challenging or engaging history, it's pop history at the very best. Don't get me wrong, Berton's works serves a purpose (some work is above average), but if your advocating historical literacy then try something a little more advanced.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:08 pm
 


Do you ever read the poll results that ask basic history questions of adult Canadians? Like those done every year by the Dominion Institute? They show that WE are NOT doing a good job of educating our own people, about our own past.

I notice that you skipped right past the part where I said that students should NOT pass a year if they aren't fully able to complete the work required, and prove it by testing. Care to give your opinion on that subject?

I have no doubt that Jack Grantstein is more authentic than Berton, re world war two, but the idea is to get the students to READ the material, and for that , Berton is better. Berton's Vimy is , in my estimation, the seminal book on that battle.

Jim B.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:34 pm
 


jimbunting jimbunting:
Do you ever read the poll results that ask basic history questions of adult Canadians? Like those done every year by the Dominion Institute? They show that WE are NOT doing a good job of educating our own people, about our own past.



And ADULT Canadians relate how to contemporary STUDENTS in Ontario and their knowledge regarding Canadian history? Evidently, you’re not aware that the current curriculum was designed with issues like this in mind and that’s why I mentioned it in the first place. Perhaps you should actually read it, its expectations and outcomes before trying to link national polls to alleged contemporary secondary historical illiteracy. Besides, if students meet provincial expectations (again, I notice the specifics remain suspiciously absent from your post) then they possessed the requisite historical knowledge

$1:
“I notice that you skipped right past the part where I said that students should NOT pass a year if they aren't fully able to complete the work required, and prove it by testing. Care to give your opinion on that subject?”


I actually didn’t skip it (but thanks for projecting your little dodge regarding the first part of my post) as I commented on the “compulsory” nature of Canadian History and Civics, but I left your rather draconian “all or nothing” Grade pass alone as its intellectually childish, pedagogically antiquated and entirely unjustifiable in today’s system. Are you actually suggesting that if a student doesn’t pass a culminating event, they fail the entire the grade level? Why? I bomb my Science exam, but I exceed provincial expectations in every other grade, so now I repeat history, English and Math too? Brilliant. This encourages students to appreciate history, how? I’ll eagerly await your response on this one.

$1:
“I have no doubt that Jack Grantstein is more authentic than Berton, re world war two, but the idea is to get the students to READ the material, and for that , Berton is better. Berton's Vimy is , in my estimation, the seminal book on that battle.”


Wait a second – you want an “all or nothing” inflexible grade expectation that are high on content and application (I’ll assume you’ll be including the specifics outcomes that will demonstrate mastery of the subject) but you’re watering down content because you’re interest in getting students to read? Why not challenge them? Why not give them decent historical works instead of leaving them with pop history? Seems you’ve got some rather contradictory ideas regarding expectations and methods, Jimmy

Sorry, it’s approaches like yours that produced such apathetic students of history in the first place. Why not investigate the new curriculum instead as it seeks to engage students in exploring Canada’s past.


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