[Perturbed]

[QUOTE BY= lesouris] Hello, recently I was watching CBC's "the Greatest Canadian" and I heard someone call Louis Riel Canada's Che Guevara. Unless you've been living under a rock for the past 50 years, you've probably noticed Che Guevara has become an icon of Latin American resistance. I implore everyone, especially artists, to use the Louis Riel image as an icon for <i>Canadian</i> resistance. I have always been somewhat attracted to the mysterious Metis leader, and I'm sure many Canadians feel the same way. <br /> <br />By the way, I do realize the irony in using the image of Louis Riel as a symbol for Canadian resistance as he did rebel against Canada. However, the reason he did this was to make Canada a better place for Metis, Aboriginals, Francophones, Catholics, and all other Canadians. He embodies the true spirit of Canadian equality and sovereignty.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br /> <br />First of all--welcome lesouris! <br /> <br />Regarding Louis Riel--I completely agree with you. Riel may have fought against the Orange Tories in Upper Canada, but he should be considered a Canadian hero in my opinion. Although I think John A. MacDonald should be forgiven for the hanging of Riel, (it was a different period in history) Riel deserved the pardon he got. <br /> <br />David Orchard claims in his book "The Fight for Canada" that without the actions of Louis Riel--the western two-thirds of Canada would be American territory today. If this is true--Riel deserves to be a lot more famous than he already is, and he deserved to be pardoned much sooner. <br /> <br /> <br />Along with Louis Riel, other figures who I think should be seen as the key in the past to Canadian sovereignty are: <br /> <br />Sir John A. MacDonald, Henri Bourassa, and if you want to go farther back--Sir Isaac Brock and Tecumseh.

[Kory Yamashita]

Interesting.. I'm going to go refresh my memory on Louis Riel <br />

[Socrates]

Very good point. Riel is certainly underappreciated. <br /> <br />I would certainly think a great deal of that has to do with racism. As much as we think we're "over" racism - really, we aren't. <br /> <br />So many times in my life I see instances of it, never overt but there nonetheless. <br /> <br />I wonder if we could get a good picture of him on shirts and the like. Of course then people would prolly think it's a picture of Zack De La Rocha - as they think of Che's picture.

[Brianne]

I've only seen two or three pics of Louis Reil (or David, as his special friends knew him), but he looked pretty crazy in all of them, although one was taken while he was in the asylum...

[gaulois]

Louis Riel represents an excellent icon for increasing Canadian Sovereingty via increased First Nations and Francophonie (or Quebec?) sovereignty. It is worrysome that he ended up locked up in a mental hospital and getting the noose. I wonder what Harper and other neocons would think of this.

[robert_fisher]

I agree and I was saddened to see Louis make number #11, on the greatest Canadian instead of being in the top 10! <br /> <br />(---- TAKE A LOOK <br /> <br />I think it is important for people to read over his history again, the schools sort of just say, yes there was a rebellion and he killed some RCMP, when there is actually a lot more to the story! <br /> <br /><a href="http://www.shsb.mb.ca/Riel/indexenglish.htm">here's a starting point</a>

[robert_fisher]

CNN just called the Democrats "sore losers" and it's only 11:25am! Just an example of how people are blinded by what they can't see! <br /> <br />People are so stubborn and in this day and age with TV, and the internet, and tons of magazines and newspapers, people think they are really smart. So no one will listen to anyone, even if they agree with them. Look at Jack Layton, to NDPers he is a 'refreshing breath' but to others he is a nutball, even though all of his platforms would benefit the average person. <br /> <br />Our reliance on corporations is the reason people are not willing to follow a leader. They already have a leader, it's Pepsi, Malboro, George Clooney, and Beniffer! People are happy dragging their asses to work for 40hrs at low wages, because they think that it is the norm. I am sick to death of the statement: "That's how it goes, get used to it!" When will our lives belong to us? <br /> <br />There are probably a lot of good leaders on Vive right now, but will anyone listen to what they say it takes to make change, I highly doubt it. Society is rotting, look at hip hop culture, something raw and pure, and political, a voice for the oppressed, and now look at it: Bling Bling, ass shaking, and Mobil! <br /> <br />This is bleak, I know! We can make a difference, but the change will come when people wake up, when unemployed University grads are voting NDP, instead of Conservative only because they think someday it will benefit them, when they are rich and powerful! Unless your in the family/social line, all you'll be doing is waiting for 'someday.'

[robert_fisher]

Also, there are tons of pictures of Louis Riel, so get out to Zellers and buy up some tshirt transfers. Try Google Image search!

[Perturbed]

[QUOTE BY= Socrates] Very good point. Riel is certainly underappreciated. <br /> <br />I would certainly think a great deal of that has to do with racism. As much as we think we're "over" racism - really, we aren't. <br /> <br />So many times in my life I see instances of it, never overt but there nonetheless. <br /> <br />I wonder if we could get a good picture of him on shirts and the like. Of course then people would prolly think it's a picture of Zack De La Rocha - as they think of Che's picture.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br /> <br />I think most Canadian history is ignored, but it's slowly changing.

[lesouris]

[QUOTE BY= Perturbed]I think most Canadian history is ignored, but it's slowly changing.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />I think this is because of two reasons: <br /> <br />1. Canadian Heritage Minutes - honestly, who hasn't quoted the "I smell burnt toast" one at least once? <br /> <br />and <br /> <br />2. CBC's Canada: A People's History - possibly the biggest step towards a true Canadian identity since the Trudeau days.

[arc628]

[QUOTE BY= robert_fisher] I agree and I was saddened to see Louis make number #11, on the greatest Canadian instead of being in the top 10! <br />[/QUOTE] <br />Considering Mackenzie King barely beat out Rick Mercer but still wasn't deemed as great as Avril Lavigne, Or that Shania Twain is a greater Canadian than the unknown soldier, I think we should be thrilled that Riel got as high as 11

[Marcarc]

My main reason for passing on this is the fact that the main reason Louis Riel was sought in the first place is because he murdered Thomas Scott for organizing his fellow road workers to collect their overtime pay. If we really need a symbol of canadian resistance I would suggest we look into canada's labour history and pick an event over a person. BTW, is an icon REALLY necessary?

[gaulois]

Not sure if you represented Scott and Riel properly here. Riel was hung for treason after setting up a provisional government in the North West many years after the Red River uprise where Scott was active. Scott was an Orangemen violently anti-catholic and his death was used to rally a lot of public opinion against Riel in Ontario. The public opinion might have ultimately caused the ruling against Riel. <br /> <br />Icons are useful and people throughout history have associated more with people than events. e.g. Mao Tse Tung, Gandhi, Mandela, Marx/Lenin. It is doubtful that they will stop doing so. Riel (-vs- the North West uprising) seems to be a rather excellent Canadian Sovereingty icon IMHO. Chosing him as an icon is also highly political due to his French/First Nations upbringing. You will note he is not too popular amongst many sellout neocons that would just rather write these cultural minorities off. <br /> <br /> <br />Canadian Encyclopedia on Thomas Scott: <br /> <br />Adventurer (born about 1842 at Clandeboye, Ireland; died on March 4, 1870, at Fort Garry, Red River Colony [Man.]). Thomas Scott was executed by a Metis firing squad during the Red River Rebellion. This caused him to be viewed as a martyr in Ontario, though he was far from saintly. He was a violent and boisterous Orangeman (who, among other things, was fiercely anti-Catholic). He had immigrated to Canada in 1863 and then drifted west. In 1869 he arrived at the Red River Colony, where he found work as a labourer. <br /> <br />Scott soon became known as a trouble maker, and in 1869-70 he allied himself with the most extreme anti-Metis group. Arrested by Louis Riel's followers, he was so insulting and unruly that early in March 1870 the Metis held a trial and condemned him to death for insubordination. This was a capital offence among Metis buffalo hunters, and Scott was duly executed on March 4, 1870. His death caused a storm of protest in Ontario. Most of the anger was directed against Louis Riel, who was held responsible for Scott's death. <br /> <br />See Riel bio at <br />http://www.canadianencyclopedia.ca/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=J1ARTJ0006837

[Marcarc]

Ok, yes I was out of line using the term murder, for another view though, go to "www.shsb.mb.ca/Riel/escott.htm" Those who have the power to prevent an execution are culpable for it. I agree that 'some people', particularly those who don't learn history past the public school level, and I suppose that's a lot, may identify more with people than events. To those people I'd ask how the civil rights movement succeeded with Martin Luther King and Malcolm X dead. Why wouldn't the british simply arrest and execute Gandhi? Simply because the 'power' does not rest on those people-and governments know it. If canadian sovereignty is the aim of the site, then why not use the Queen? (that's being facetious). Mind you, we're all just talking here, so people can 'choose' their greatest rebel to their hearts content. I'd choose that great New Brunswicker RG Bennett. I don't think a better symbol can be found. Here was a completely ineffective ruler whose life consisted of sending 20 dollar bills and commiserate letters to all those starving during the depression. He showed his true colours in sending the RCMP to Regina to beat the people who were coming east to demand change. It's a perfect symbol because it doesn't antagonize 'some' people, and it's perfect for showing opposing politicians just what becomes of those who refuse to stand up for Canadians. RG Bennett lost the next election and left Canada to spend his remaining years in Britain-3 people came to see him off. And of course then war broke out and suddenly money was discovered to start a wartime economy.

[Calumny]

[QUOTE]To those people I'd ask how the civil rights movement succeeded with Martin Luther King and Malcolm X dead?[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />I think we broached this in the 'Leader's' thread. The person is a vessel for an idea that gains common acceptance. The idea lives on after the person, otherwise Christianity, Isalam, etc., would be footnotes on a parchment, however it is often the person, rather than the idea, that is often revered, e.g., the fundamentalist Christians who worship Christ but don't necessarily live by his teachings, or live by their warped interpretation of the same. <br /> <br />Problem with revering the person is that not so great people can produce great ideas. <br /> <br />Another problem is that times have to be right for the person and idea, e.g., had a Gandhi been on the scene in the early 1800s rather than 1900s, he probably would just have been shot and that would have been the end of it. For all we know, there may be a number of forgotten 'Gandhis' whose time was not right.