[TonyCanuck]

GreatBriton GreatBriton:

Clogeroo Clogeroo:

$1:

Good point Clogeroo. And yet, the Americans go on and on about their 'ace' Eddie Rickenbacker who only shot down 26.

Well they entered the war much later too. So if they came in at the beginning they could have had more aces. Mind you if America declared war in 1914 we probably would have marched right into Germany with their support

Britain, or rather the British Empire, was the only one that fought both World Wars from beginning to end.

and that is relevant to this how?

[GreatBriton]

I'm pointing out that there was never any way, like Froggy, the Hun or the Japs that the British will ever surrender.

And the Yanks usually only enter wars against major countries when all the hardest and most dangerous fighting is over.

They entered the First World War in 1917, only a year or so before it ended when much of the rest of the world had lost thousands after three years fighting.

And the only reason why the joined WWII was because the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. The Yanks appeased the Germans and Japanese thinking "It's okay, they'll never attack us." But how wrong they were.

[Regina]

GB your lack of historical knowledge knows no bounds. Start by looking a little more closely at the "Battle of the Atlantic" .......although you may need to branch out of your comfort zone to do so.

[BartSimpson]

GreatBriton GreatBriton:

I'm pointing out that there was never any way, like Froggy, the Hun or the Japs that the British will ever surrender.

And the Yanks usually only enter wars against major countries when all the hardest and most dangerous fighting is over.

They entered the First World War in 1917, only a year or so before it ended when much of the rest of the world had lost thousands after three years fighting.

And the only reason why the joined WWII was because the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. The Yanks appeased the Germans and Japanese thinking "It's okay, they'll never attack us." But how wrong they were.

Astounding.

Allied losses in WW1 were due to Spanish Flu, trench foot, cholera, typhoid, and then there were the staggerring casualties from the absurd, ridiculous, and arrogant British & French Generals who ordered repeated infantry bayonet charges at fortified German positions.

Of note is that German losses from Spanish Flu, trench foot, cholera, typhoid, and suicidal infantry bayonet charges were significantly lower than on the British & French side.

German trenches were frequently constructed of concrete, they had running water, electricity, and their troops were out of the mud. Heck, many of the German emplacements were so sound that they were used again by both sides in the next war. German medical care for their front line troops was far better than the Allies - even the Americans - and German wounded were four times more likely than their Allied counterparts to survive their wounds and return to action. The German High Command actually gave a damn about their troops unlike the British who saw the soldiers as expendable cannon fodder.

American losses from infantry bayonet charges against fortified German positions were considerably lower than the British & French because Pershing steadfastly refused to involve US troops in such foolishness. At one point the Brits pressured President Wilson to allow American troops to be used as replacements to buck up decimated British and French units and Pershing offered his resignation.

The Canadians at Vimy proved the idiocy of the British strategies by utilising actual tactics instead of suicidal bayonet charges to accomplish a victory.

We officially joined WW2 as a consequence of the Japanese attack, but prior to that we were sending massive material support to Britain via the direct convoy shipments and via Lend Lease. Of note is that no small number of individual Americans enlisted with the UK and Canadian forces prior to the US entry into the war.

So far as our fighting after the hard work was done, where do you think we were on D-Day? For that matter, where was Britain in the Pacific? Oh, yes, that's right, Britain had withdrawn from the Pacific and left the defense of Australia to the Aussies, the Kiwis, and the Americans.

How many British troops died at Iwo Jima? Guadalcanal? Saipan? New Guinea? Hmmm? Oh, that's right, you weren't there.

Now I will give credit and note that the Brits and the Canadians were preparing to send troops for the invasion of Japan in which the Allies were anticipating losses on such a scale that so many body bags were produced that we're still using them sixty-two years later.

How many Brits died in the invasion of Japan?

None.

Because America nuked the Japanese into submission.

You're welcome.

[2Cdo]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

GreatBriton GreatBriton:

I'm pointing out that there was never any way, like Froggy, the Hun or the Japs that the British will ever surrender.

And the Yanks usually only enter wars against major countries when all the hardest and most dangerous fighting is over.

They entered the First World War in 1917, only a year or so before it ended when much of the rest of the world had lost thousands after three years fighting.

And the only reason why the joined WWII was because the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. The Yanks appeased the Germans and Japanese thinking "It's okay, they'll never attack us." But how wrong they were.

Astounding.

Allied losses in WW1 were due to Spanish Flu, trench foot, cholera, typhoid, and then there were the staggerring casualties from the absurd, ridiculous, and arrogant British & French Generals who ordered repeated infantry bayonet charges at fortified German positions.

Of note is that German losses from Spanish Flu, trench foot, cholera, typhoid, and suicidal infantry bayonet charges were significantly lower than on the British & French side.

German trenches were frequently constructed of concrete, they had running water, electricity, and their troops were out of the mud. Heck, many of the German emplacements were so sound that they were used again by both sides in the next war. German medical care for their front line troops was far better than the Allies - even the Americans - and German wounded were four times more likely than their Allied counterparts to survive their wounds and return to action. The German High Command actually gave a damn about their troops unlike the British who saw the soldiers as expendable cannon fodder.

American losses from infantry bayonet charges against fortified German positions were considerably lower than the British & French because Pershing steadfastly refused to involve US troops in such foolishness. At one point the Brits pressured President Wilson to allow American troops to be used as replacements to buck up decimated British and French units and Pershing offered his resignation.

The Canadians at Vimy proved the idiocy of the British strategies by utilising actual tactics instead of suicidal bayonet charges to accomplish a victory.

We officially joined WW2 as a consequence of the Japanese attack, but prior to that we were sending massive material support to Britain via the direct convoy shipments and via Lend Lease. Of note is that no small number of individual Americans enlisted with the UK and Canadian forces prior to the US entry into the war.

So far as our fighting after the hard work was done, where do you think we were on D-Day? For that matter, where was Britain in the Pacific? Oh, yes, that's right, Britain had withdrawn from the Pacific and left the defense of Australia to the Aussies, the Kiwis, and the Americans.

How many British troops died at Iwo Jima? Guadalcanal? Saipan? New Guinea? Hmmm? Oh, that's right, you weren't there.

Now I will give credit and note that the Brits and the Canadians were preparing to send troops for the invasion of Japan in which the Allies were anticipating losses on such a scale that so many body bags were produced that we're still using them sixty-two years later.

How many Brits died in the invasion of Japan?

None.

Because America nuked the Japanese into submission.

You're welcome.

Fucking eh Bart!

[Clogeroo]

$1:

Astounding.

Allied losses in WW1 were due to Spanish Flu, trench foot, cholera, typhoid, and then there were the staggerring casualties from the absurd, ridiculous, and arrogant British & French Generals who ordered repeated infantry bayonet charges at fortified German positions.

Of note is that German losses from Spanish Flu, trench foot, cholera, typhoid, and suicidal infantry bayonet charges were significantly lower than on the British & French side.

German trenches were frequently constructed of concrete, they had running water, electricity, and their troops were out of the mud. Heck, many of the German emplacements were so sound that they were used again by both sides in the next war. German medical care for their front line troops was far better than the Allies - even the Americans - and German wounded were four times more likely than their Allied counterparts to survive their wounds and return to action. The German High Command actually gave a damn about their troops unlike the British who saw the soldiers as expendable cannon fodder.

American losses from infantry bayonet charges against fortified German positions were considerably lower than the British & French because Pershing steadfastly refused to involve US troops in such foolishness. At one point the Brits pressured President Wilson to allow American troops to be used as replacements to buck up decimated British and French units and Pershing offered his resignation.

The Canadians at Vimy proved the idiocy of the British strategies by utilising actual tactics instead of suicidal bayonet charges to accomplish a victory.

We officially joined WW2 as a consequence of the Japanese attack, but prior to that we were sending massive material support to Britain via the direct convoy shipments and via Lend Lease. Of note is that no small number of individual Americans enlisted with the UK and Canadian forces prior to the US entry into the war.

So far as our fighting after the hard work was done, where do you think we were on D-Day? For that matter, where was Britain in the Pacific? Oh, yes, that's right, Britain had withdrawn from the Pacific and left the defense of Australia to the Aussies, the Kiwis, and the Americans.

How many British troops died at Iwo Jima? Guadalcanal? Saipan? New Guinea? Hmmm? Oh, that's right, you weren't there.

Now I will give credit and note that the Brits and the Canadians were preparing to send troops for the invasion of Japan in which the Allies were anticipating losses on such a scale that so many body bags were produced that we're still using them sixty-two years later.

How many Brits died in the invasion of Japan?

None.

Because America nuked the Japanese into submission.

You're welcome.

The idea of the stereotypical British officer of the Great War doesn't sit well with me. The British had some of the highest number of officers killed right beside those under them and many went with them over the top.

Also the British were involved at Vimy Ridge. A quarter of the artillery fired was even by them. Julian Byng was British and the Canadian Corp’s commander and was an excellent leader and many Canadians welcomed him. He even became our Governor General after.

Much of our dismay came from our own home front where many profiteered off the Canadians and our equipment was of such poor quality we ended up borrowing much from the British soldiers or whatever we could pick off those who died.

The German high command hardly cared a lot about their own soldiers much either. The war could have easily ended in 1915 and the German and Austrian-Hungarian armies knew they could never push much further or actually take France. But instead of accepting this they held on to much ground that was worthless and kept the war going. That is why they dug in and waited. That is all they planned to do was just sit there and hang on and let thousands of their own die sitting there. Even look at the idea of battles like Verdun. The whole point of that was just to weaken the French moral. A 100,000 good Germans gone from that and also created the Somme to just relieve pressure from the French and more Germans followed dead as well. German tactics and commanders were no much better than our own.

Although the British knew that they would never even be able to launch a major offensive probably not until 1917. Their war production was not as great as Germanys and couldn’t produce enough materials until then and turns out they were right we didn’t see much until then. So they could be seen as the worst for knowing their attacks would never even be successful probably until three years into the war. Also they were never prepared for this war they had the royal navy and most of their investment went there and land forces of Britain were insignificant compared to that.

The war was pointless and I don’t think anyone had a better position or achieved much no matter which army they were in. We should have just called it off at Christmas but instead kept it going for the sake of our pride and not wanting to lose. In the end it was really a draw Germany remained intact and was never really felt invaded but was punished economically thus leading to another world war fought but the sons of the first. Two tragic wars caused by madness and over patriotism and left millions killed, wounded, and mentally disturbed.

[Knoss]

It's problably due tot he fact that Canada has not had domestic war since 1884.

[BartSimpson]

Clogeroo Clogeroo:

The war could have easily ended in 1915 and the German and Austrian-Hungarian armies knew they could never push much further or actually take France. But instead of accepting this they held on to much ground that was worthless and kept the war going. That is why they dug in and waited.

No, they dug in and waited for an equitable peace. The promise of such a peace was extended to them and that resulted in the Armistice. When the Germans arrived at Versailles they were forced to accept the accursed Versailles Treaty which was not an equitable peace, but a surrenderin which the Germans had to admit guilt and they were forced to make reparations.

The war nearly started over again at this point. Of note was that it was the French and British who first mentioned a return to hostilities to advance the initial version of Versailles which was punitive in the extreme. President Wilson objected to this in the strongest terms and his Presidential papers indicate his misgivings at allying with the French and the British in the first place and he also even went so far as to mention to David Lloyd George a consideration of war against France due to the often hostile and anti-American actions of Georges Clemanceau. To his credit, Lloyd George moderated the French demands on Germany to the point that the USA would not break relations with the Allies but not sufficiently that the USA would participate in Versailles.

The German disgust at the betrayal by the French and British was exemplified at Scapa Flow when the German Navy scuttled itself after several months of Allied intrigues over the disposition of the German Fleet. In the definitive work on this subject, Castles of Steel , Massie notes that Admiral Ludwig von Reuter was rather miffed with the Royal Navy treating the German sailors as slaves - they were forced to stay aboard their ships without any leave from the time they entered Scapa Flow in November 1918 until they scuttled their ships in June 1919 - eight months later. After the scuttling took place eight German sailors and one officer were shot by the British. The officer had his hands up when he was shot. Massie notes this in detail while pro-British sources tend to gloss over precisely how the nine Germans perished.

That this violated the usual norms in dealing with prisoners was irrelevant to the Lord Admiral Beatty because, in his opinion, the war was over and the Germans were no longer sailors who should be accorded the same rights as sailors in time of war. This was prior to the Geneva Conventions.

I do not begrudge the Germans digging in to avoid an unjust peace. History proves that they were right to question the word of the French and British that there would be an honorable peace because there wasn't an honorable peace. The British and French lied when they agreed to the Armistice to be followed by an equitable and negotiated peace.

Had there been an honorable peace after the First World War there would not have been another war to correct the avarices and greed of Versailles.

[Tricks]

GreatBriton GreatBriton:

Clogeroo Clogeroo:

$1:

Good point Clogeroo. And yet, the Americans go on and on about their 'ace' Eddie Rickenbacker who only shot down 26.

Well they entered the war much later too. So if they came in at the beginning they could have had more aces. Mind you if America declared war in 1914 we probably would have marched right into Germany with their support

Britain, or rather the British Empire, was the only one that fought both World Wars from beginning to end.

Canada... Wasn't part of the empire in Numero 2 if I am not mistaken.

[Tricks]

GreatBriton GreatBriton:

They entered the First World War in 1917, only a year or so before it ended when much of the rest of the world had lost thousands after three years fighting.

Actually then entered after they were attacked sending supplies to Britain. Not after the fighting was done. Without the states a good chunk of that fighting wouldn't have been possible.

[Tricks]

2Cdo 2Cdo:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

GreatBriton GreatBriton:

I'm pointing out that there was never any way, like Froggy, the Hun or the Japs that the British will ever surrender.

And the Yanks usually only enter wars against major countries when all the hardest and most dangerous fighting is over.

They entered the First World War in 1917, only a year or so before it ended when much of the rest of the world had lost thousands after three years fighting.

And the only reason why the joined WWII was because the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. The Yanks appeased the Germans and Japanese thinking "It's okay, they'll never attack us." But how wrong they were.

Astounding.

Allied losses in WW1 were due to Spanish Flu, trench foot, cholera, typhoid, and then there were the staggerring casualties from the absurd, ridiculous, and arrogant British & French Generals who ordered repeated infantry bayonet charges at fortified German positions.

Of note is that German losses from Spanish Flu, trench foot, cholera, typhoid, and suicidal infantry bayonet charges were significantly lower than on the British & French side.

German trenches were frequently constructed of concrete, they had running water, electricity, and their troops were out of the mud. Heck, many of the German emplacements were so sound that they were used again by both sides in the next war. German medical care for their front line troops was far better than the Allies - even the Americans - and German wounded were four times more likely than their Allied counterparts to survive their wounds and return to action. The German High Command actually gave a damn about their troops unlike the British who saw the soldiers as expendable cannon fodder.

American losses from infantry bayonet charges against fortified German positions were considerably lower than the British & French because Pershing steadfastly refused to involve US troops in such foolishness. At one point the Brits pressured President Wilson to allow American troops to be used as replacements to buck up decimated British and French units and Pershing offered his resignation.

The Canadians at Vimy proved the idiocy of the British strategies by utilising actual tactics instead of suicidal bayonet charges to accomplish a victory.

We officially joined WW2 as a consequence of the Japanese attack, but prior to that we were sending massive material support to Britain via the direct convoy shipments and via Lend Lease. Of note is that no small number of individual Americans enlisted with the UK and Canadian forces prior to the US entry into the war.

So far as our fighting after the hard work was done, where do you think we were on D-Day? For that matter, where was Britain in the Pacific? Oh, yes, that's right, Britain had withdrawn from the Pacific and left the defense of Australia to the Aussies, the Kiwis, and the Americans.

How many British troops died at Iwo Jima? Guadalcanal? Saipan? New Guinea? Hmmm? Oh, that's right, you weren't there.

Now I will give credit and note that the Brits and the Canadians were preparing to send troops for the invasion of Japan in which the Allies were anticipating losses on such a scale that so many body bags were produced that we're still using them sixty-two years later.

How many Brits died in the invasion of Japan?

None.

Because America nuked the Japanese into submission.

You're welcome.

Fucking eh Bart!

I concur. Excellent post.

[Schleihauf]

tsotas tsotas:

I'm proud of the fact Canada doesn't take glory in it's military history. It would be nice if we never had to use our military at all.

You're proud of the fact that a lot of Canadians are uneducated about the people who payed the ultiamte price for our freedom?

[Schleihauf]

tsotas tsotas:

Tricks Tricks:

tsotas tsotas:

Tricks Tricks:

tsotas tsotas:

So, Afhanistan is a peaceful democracy now, eh?

No, but the troops are working to make it so.

Great! I'll be looking for it to be all "finished" shortly. How long do you think it will take?

A long time. Your sarcasm sucks though

They need to finish a little faster. I recommend not caring so much about civilian casualties. The world is so preoccupied with the U.S. and Iraq it's not like they're going to notice anything that's not on the scale of a Monty Python movie.

The Afghanis will notice.

[Tokimini]

Streaker Streaker:

kaetz kaetz:

Streaker Streaker:

stratos stratos:

ouch not knowing whom billy bishop was, heck even I know he is credited with shooting down the red barron.

It wasn't Billy Bishop. It was Roy Brown.

yet was it really him? i heard of some evidence against it...

Yeah, there's some controversy about it. A plausible case has been made that Australians shot him down from the ground.

From the angle of the bullet that killed von Richthofen the shot had to come from the ground, so it was the Aussies that got him.

[Tokimini]

GreatBriton GreatBriton:

Clogeroo Clogeroo:

$1:

Good point Clogeroo. And yet, the Americans go on and on about their 'ace' Eddie Rickenbacker who only shot down 26.

Well they entered the war much later too. So if they came in at the beginning they could have had more aces. Mind you if America declared war in 1914 we probably would have marched right into Germany with their support

Britain, or rather the British Empire, was the only one that fought both World Wars from beginning to end.

Britain fought both world wars from beginning to end because both started as European wars and you Europeans dragged the rest of world in to save your sorry asses.