[Dr Caleb]

Don't kid yourself Jordan. Didn't you ever learn you don't value something so much as when you earn that thing? If you are given a car, you can't appreciate it as much as if you go out and earn that car.<p> <br />The Iraqis are being given their freedom and a democratic society. The did not earn it nor fight for it, and the average Iraqi couldn't care less about it. They'll be involved in a civil war before long.<p> <br />Perhaps 'Bowling' and "F/911" are heavily biased, but they are based in fact with the exact opposite spin as most of the Western media. No one is forcing you into theatres to see it.<p>

[Jordan Bell]

Geeze thats weird because UN officals say that they have registered nearly ten million voters in the country. On another note 42 percent of the newly registered voters are women. So that is a big step for women in being treated more eqauly to men. So Obviously a good amount of the population do care. <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/exclaim.gif' alt='Exclaimation'>

[z_whalen]

Dr. Caleb you say the Iraqis are on their way to a civil war. This may be true, but it's because the world is concentrating on criticising America, not helping Iraq. As I've stated before, America cannot pull out. That would be the worst thing to do. They are in Iraq, accept it. Under Saddam, Iraqis never had a chance at democracy. Now there is hope, whether you see it or not. You may have not believe in it but personally, I have not lost hope for democracy in Iraq. However, without American soldiers stationed there, it will never happen. The army stays put.

[Kory Yamashita]

Whalen, again I call on you to back up your claims that the Iraqi people will somehow be better off in the near future (and I apologize if you have already done so in another forum post that I have yet to read). <br /> <br />With three distinct and mutually destructive religious groups in Iraq (one of which has already decided to boycott the election), how do you expect to transfer power over to the Iraqis? And which Iraqi groups are going to get that power? And once a government has been decided, what's to stop the abundant supply of 'freedom fighters' from toppling it with suicide bombs, assassinations, executions, etc? There is no reason to believe that the Iraqis who are capable of murdering Americans in this cold-blooded manner are unwilling to do the same to domestic groups they despise. <br /> <br />The US has dug itself a REALLY deep hole. And they brought the Iraqi people down into it with them. And whether they continue to dig or try to claw their way up the sides, one thing's certain: the sides will collapse and the Iraqi people will be buried. <br /> <br />There is no easy way out. That's why so many people said not to go in in the first place. Because anyone who inspected the evidence would indeed conclude that there WERE no weapons of mass destruction. It was about oil from the start. <br /> <br />And don't forget that. It's never been about democracy or WMD's. It's always been about oil. And when it comes to oil, it's much better for the US to keep troops there than it is for them to hand over complete power to the Iraqi people. So even if Iraq DOES succeed in forming a stable government, the US is likely to covertly fund guerilla resistance as it has in Afghanistan (Bin Laden), Iraq (Hussein), Guatemala, Haiti, and basically the rest of South and Latin America. <br /> <br />Don't go telling us that just because the Cold War is over, the US has stopped trying to take control of the entire world. THe only difference is that now there isn't a competing superpower to keep us focussed on the real danger: the US plan for global domination. <br /> <br />They've just secured some of the biggest oil fields in the world. What's next? <br /> <br />Afghanistan - turns down a contract for a massive cross-country pipeline. The US invades and the pipeline is built. <br /> <br />Iraq - holds one of the largest oil reserves in the country. The US invades and takes over oil extraction. <br /> <br />Canada - has the second largest oil supply in the world, has more clean water than anywhere in the world (except for maybe Russia) and proximity to the US, is rich in mineral deposits, diamonds, timber, grain, cattle, power, fish, agriculture, etc, etc. <br /> <br />We've already signed away our rights to most of these resources. When the US decides they want more, are we going to hand it over? Or are we going to stand up and fight? And if we DO fight, won't we be fighting the same fight the Iraqis are fighting now? Forget Saddam. Forget the weapons of mass destruction. They're both history. Now it's a fight for resources and, in my eyes, and Canadian who sides with the US is putting a gun to his (or her) head.

[z_whalen]

Kory I have talked about this on end in another forum and I am getting tired of explaining myself over and over again so just go look at some of my posts in 'Get those troops out of there.' And read carefully.

[Kory Yamashita]

Whalen, will do... and I already responded there.

[Stymiest]

[QUOTE BY= Kory Yamashita] Whalen, again I call on you to back up your claims that the Iraqi people will somehow be better off in the near future (and I apologize if you have already done so in another forum post that I have yet to read). <br /> <br />With three distinct and mutually destructive religious groups in Iraq (one of which has already decided to boycott the election), how do you expect to transfer power over to the Iraqis? And which Iraqi groups are going to get that power? And once a government has been decided, what's to stop the abundant supply of 'freedom fighters' from toppling it with suicide bombs, assassinations, executions, etc? There is no reason to believe that the Iraqis who are capable of murdering Americans in this cold-blooded manner are unwilling to do the same to domestic groups they despise. <br /> <br />The US has dug itself a REALLY deep hole. And they brought the Iraqi people down into it with them. And whether they continue to dig or try to claw their way up the sides, one thing's certain: the sides will collapse and the Iraqi people will be buried. <br /> <br />There is no easy way out. That's why so many people said not to go in in the first place. Because anyone who inspected the evidence would indeed conclude that there WERE no weapons of mass destruction. It was about oil from the start. <br /> <br />And don't forget that. It's never been about democracy or WMD's. It's always been about oil. And when it comes to oil, it's much better for the US to keep troops there than it is for them to hand over complete power to the Iraqi people. So even if Iraq DOES succeed in forming a stable government, the US is likely to covertly fund guerilla resistance as it has in Afghanistan (Bin Laden), Iraq (Hussein), Guatemala, Haiti, and basically the rest of South and Latin America. <br /> <br />Don't go telling us that just because the Cold War is over, the US has stopped trying to take control of the entire world. THe only difference is that now there isn't a competing superpower to keep us focussed on the real danger: the US plan for global domination. <br /> <br />They've just secured some of the biggest oil fields in the world. What's next? <br /> <br />Afghanistan - turns down a contract for a massive cross-country pipeline. The US invades and the pipeline is built. <br /> <br />Iraq - holds one of the largest oil reserves in the country. The US invades and takes over oil extraction. <br /> <br />Canada - has the second largest oil supply in the world, has more clean water than anywhere in the world (except for maybe Russia) and proximity to the US, is rich in mineral deposits, diamonds, timber, grain, cattle, power, fish, agriculture, etc, etc. <br /> <br />We've already signed away our rights to most of these resources. When the US decides they want more, are we going to hand it over? Or are we going to stand up and fight? And if we DO fight, won't we be fighting the same fight the Iraqis are fighting now? Forget Saddam. Forget the weapons of mass destruction. They're both history. Now it's a fight for resources and, in my eyes, and Canadian who sides with the US is putting a gun to his (or her) head.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />I'd be much more worried about China then the states. China is heading for a massive crisis as far as oil, food, etc are concerned. they just don't have enough. Why do you think Taiwan is so important to them. Its sitting smack in the middle of an oil field.