[Unsound]

PublicAnimalNo9 wrote:

[I'm also not suggesting it should be offical SOP. But I refuse to cry about the guy's rights being violated after showing he was more than willing to kill a possible husband and father cuz he didn't want to go to jail.

Sorry, I just can't get upset at the police about that.

I doubt that many people are upset about this guy getting hurt, but there is a reasonable place somewhere between hang-em high frontier justice and "coddling" criminals.

When you violate other peoples rights you become a criminal. There are degrees of criminality of course, but that's really all there is to it.If you're on the side of the law you have to abide by the law. Otherwise you're no better than the dirt-bags you refuse to cry for.

[Gunnair]

Unsound wrote:

PublicAnimalNo9 wrote:

[I'm also not suggesting it should be offical SOP. But I refuse to cry about the guy's rights being violated after showing he was more than willing to kill a possible husband and father cuz he didn't want to go to jail.

Sorry, I just can't get upset at the police about that.

I doubt that many people are upset about this guy getting hurt, but there is a reasonable place somewhere between hang-em high frontier justice and "coddling" criminals.

When you violate other peoples rights you become a criminal. There are degrees of criminality of course, but that's really all there is to it.If you're on the side of the law you have to abide by the law. Otherwise you're no better than the dirt-bags you refuse to cry for.

Every 'superhero' violates a criminal's rights and they're lauded as superheroes.

Makes ya think...

[Unsound]

Gunnair wrote:

Unsound wrote:

PublicAnimalNo9 wrote:

[I'm also not suggesting it should be offical SOP. But I refuse to cry about the guy's rights being violated after showing he was more than willing to kill a possible husband and father cuz he didn't want to go to jail.

Sorry, I just can't get upset at the police about that.

I doubt that many people are upset about this guy getting hurt, but there is a reasonable place somewhere between hang-em high frontier justice and "coddling" criminals.

When you violate other peoples rights you become a criminal. There are degrees of criminality of course, but that's really all there is to it.If you're on the side of the law you have to abide by the law. Otherwise you're no better than the dirt-bags you refuse to cry for.

Every 'superhero' violates a criminal's rights and they're lauded as superheroes.

Makes ya think...

Ahh yes... I'd almost forgotten about the influential "comic book" school of philosophy on civil rights.

[Gunnair]

Unsound wrote:

Gunnair wrote:

Unsound wrote:

I doubt that many people are upset about this guy getting hurt, but there is a reasonable place somewhere between hang-em high frontier justice and "coddling" criminals.

When you violate other peoples rights you become a criminal. There are degrees of criminality of course, but that's really all there is to it.If you're on the side of the law you have to abide by the law. Otherwise you're no better than the dirt-bags you refuse to cry for.

Every 'superhero' violates a criminal's rights and they're lauded as superheroes.

Makes ya think...

Ahh yes... I'd almost forgotten about the influential "comic book" school of philosophy on civil rights.

It is true though. Even the guys in superhero costumes in the lower mainland who were entrapping pedos were getting accolades even though what they were doing wasn't right.

[Unsound]

[quote="Gunnair]
It is true though. Even the guys in superhero costumes in the lower mainland who were entrapping pedos were getting accolades even though what they were doing wasn't right.[/quote]
It is true. And understandable. It's not that I don't get a little thrill out of the idea of criminals getting what's coming to them. Especially pedos. I'm just so wary of that slippery slope. Better for a few people to get less than they deserve than for us as a society to lose our freedoms.

Godwin alert... "First they came for the bikers and I said nothing..."

[PublicAnimalNo9]

Unsound wrote:

Godwin alert... "First they came for the bikers and I said nothing..."

To repeat, I'm not at all suggesting it's acceptable to harrass known gang members to engineer a confrontation that winds up with them dead. Nor am I suggesting "resisting arrest" is an appropriate reason to execute street justice. But when a criminal of any sort starts blazing away at police trying to apprehend him/her for a crime, it shouldn't have to come as a shock if said criminal has to be meat-waggoned away. I don't think it matters who you are or how much training you've had, no training can prepare you for being deliberately targeted and shot at. And certainly none can truly prepare you for watching your buddy get shot and wounded, or worse. This is exactly why I tend to give some leeway to the police when this happens.
I've been shot at twice(once accidentally) and had a gun pointed at me one other time. Let me tell you something brother, there's no adrenaline rush like the one you get from getting shot at.
I'm all for the Rule of Law but it has two major flaws. 1)Serious criminals don't give a shit about it. 2)It attempts to deal with the most uncivilized aspects of society in an overly-civilized manner. I'm not talking about the "ordinary dumb criminals". I'm talking about the garbage that has made a conscious decision to live as outlaws and has less regard for human life than say, you have for the price of apples in Fiji.

I know I won't find much agreement but it's only my opinion. It's not something I really think about until it happens. But when it does, I'm not worrying about how their rights were abrogated. It's more like, "Oh well, guess they shouldn't'a been an asshole".

Then again, I'm the kind of guy that watches police chase videos hoping for a two hit crash. The runner hitting a tree or other substantial object, and then hitting the windhsield as they come to a very sudden halt.

[andyt]

If someone eluding police crashes and dies, that's their own problem. If someone shoots it out with police, and is shot during the shootout that's their own problem. If someone is shot while face down on the ground in custody, that's all of our problem. Do we want to live under the rule of law, or allow the police to apply the law as they deem fit? Might as well dispense with the courts in that case. Giving the police leeway to shoot someone in the back while the person is down - that's some pretty scary leeway.

[andyt]

Just to refresh what we're talking about here:

BeaverFever wrote:

My family lived in Vic in the early 80's, where my dad was a doctor. My dad attended a ER case the patient (still alive) had been shot by police after having shot and wounded an officer. The police claimed they shot him from across the street during a shoot-out. Suspect's gunshot wound was through-and-through, back-to-front, from above, and at close range.

After the medical report was published, The police story then changed to: after the suspect was on the ground and in custody, another officer arrived on the scene with his weapon drawn, tripped and fell on the suspect, accidentally discharging his weapon.

So thats either an example of brutality or incompetence, but neither is professionalism.

To which

PublicAnimalNo9 wrote:

Awwww my heart pumps piss for the "victim". When some fuckhead is shooting at the police, I'm not all that worried about how they finish things.

To which

BeaverFever wrote:

Oh, the guy was real pieace of shit...a biker and an escaped con from some prison in washington state. But you don't need to symnpathize with the victim to understand that this kind of police behaviour cannot be tolerated. And if you have cops who think they have the power to execute "dirtbags" on site as they wish, you better be worried. That's what happens in the worst dictarships.


You should know: In the days after the incident, there were strange cars parked infront of our house, mysterious phone calls late at night, anonymous callers asking my dad and mom if theyd talked to anyone about the case or the phone would ring and nobody would be on the line. It was pure police intimidation. My dad was just a doctor doing his job. Even though it only lasted a few days, I guarantee if you and your family ever go through something like that, you'll never write another post like the one you just did.

To which

PublicAnimalNo9 wrote:

Funny, I had the same thing happen when I refused to picket after voting against a strike. Death threats, cars parked out front, cars driving by realslow, my vehicle vandalized. If you ever had that happen to you, you'd never write another post about how great unions are.

However, my point wasn't about shooting "dirtbags", it was about not being shocked and all holy when a "dirtbag" gets his wind resistence reduced after shooting a cop.
Quite frankly, if I ever witness a similar incident, the police sure wouldn't need to intimidate me to get me to keep quiet about it.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

Good ol' andy. You can always count on him to cheerlead for even the worst criminal scum.
Some idiot could go on a killing spree and all you'd be worried about is if his rights were violated at the time of apprehension.
Hell, if they'd have found Bin Laden in Canada and just shot him like they did in Pakistan, you'd propably be crying about the the lack of due process and how his rights were violated.

What about the 11yr old kid that was blown up by a biker bomb in Quebec in 1994. What about his fucking right to walk down the street without getting blown up?!?!?!
Don't worry though, Boucher was treated civilly and with due process, unlike that 11yr old boy!

Nah, fuck the victims, as long as the criminal scumbags get proper due process then that's all that matters. Who gives a shit about the trail of death and misery they leave behind?

[Unsound]

You're absolutly right PA, people who think that everyone, including cops, should abide by the law obviously love criminals and hate the victims. Lord knows, I let loose with an evil laugh every time I hear about an old lady getting mugged, or a child getting kidnapped.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

Unsound wrote:

You're absolutly right PA, people who think that everyone, including cops, should abide by the law obviously love criminals and hate the victims. Lord knows, I let loose with an evil laugh every time I hear about an old lady getting mugged, or a child getting kidnapped.

Shhhhhhh I was responding to andy with his favourite tactic, reductio ad absurdum.
See, he thinks because I'm not biting my nails and wringing my hands over income inequality, I am therefore gleeful about it.
Just wanted to see if andy would catch the irony or not.

Thanks for ruining it ya jerk



j/k Unsound, yer not really a jerk

[Unsound]

PublicAnimalNo9 wrote:

Thanks for ruining it ya jerk

Sorry That argument is just one of my pet peeves. As if there's no middle ground between being a limp-wristed bleeding heart criminal coddling cop hater and thinking cops should be allowed to do whatever they want to anyone they can pass off as a criminal.

PublicAnimalNo9 wrote:

:lol: j/k Unsound, yer not really a jerk

Shhh... don't tell anyone.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

Unsound wrote:

Sorry That argument is just one of my pet peeves. As if there's no middle ground between being a limp-wristed bleeding heart criminal coddling cop hater and thinking cops should be allowed to do whatever they want to anyone they can pass off as a criminal.

I agree, which is why I've been very careful about how I've worded my particular stance.

[andyt]

PublicAnimalNo9 wrote:

Unsound wrote:

Sorry That argument is just one of my pet peeves. As if there's no middle ground between being a limp-wristed bleeding heart criminal coddling cop hater and thinking cops should be allowed to do whatever they want to anyone they can pass off as a criminal.

I agree, which is why I've been very careful about how I've worded my particular stance.

Yep, very careful.

PublicAnimalNo9 wrote:

Awwww my heart pumps piss for the "victim". When some fuckhead is shooting at the police, I'm not all that worried about how they finish things.

Nice nuanced stance there.

[andyt]

PublicAnimalNo9 wrote:

Unsound wrote:

You're absolutly right PA, people who think that everyone, including cops, should abide by the law obviously love criminals and hate the victims. Lord knows, I let loose with an evil laugh every time I hear about an old lady getting mugged, or a child getting kidnapped.

Shhhhhhh I was responding to andy with his favourite tactic, reductio ad absurdum.
See, he thinks because I'm not biting my nails and wringing my hands over income inequality, I am therefore gleeful about it.
Just wanted to see if andy would catch the irony or not.

Thanks for ruining it ya jerk



j/k Unsound, yer not really a jerk