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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:32 am
 


Ahh, there's still plenty of room for immigrants. The rest a lot live below the poverty line is because our certification standards are so high (a good thing IMHO), which means people need to re-certify to practice their skill - medicine, engineer, nurse, whatever. That takes time, but many of them do re-certify and go on to do quite well. My old neighbourhood was full of immigrant families (from all over the world - China, Portugal, Ukraine, you name it) and they all just worked extra hard to get ahead.

The only thing I would change is that they should add line or two to their immigration agreement/permanent residency that requires new immigrants live somewhere other than the big 3 cities until they become Canadian citizens. If they aren't willing to agree to a clause, then then can't come to Canada, simple as that. There's thousands of others who would be willing to do so.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:32 am
 


Brenda wrote:
Exactly. What I dont get is that abortions are paid for, but birthcontrol isnt.


There are plenty of non-profit organizations and special events where they hand out free condoms, especially at places like university health clinics. Birth control is available for those who want it. Most people are just too lazy to use it.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:39 am
 


bootlegga wrote:
Brenda wrote:
Exactly. What I dont get is that abortions are paid for, but birthcontrol isnt.


There are plenty of non-profit organizations and special events where they hand out free condoms, especially at places like university health clinics. Birth control is available for those who want it. Most people are just too lazy to use it.

I'm not talking about condoms, I am talking about pill, IUD, that kind of thing.

Not every abortion is a teen pregnancy or a one night stand-fuck up... Just sayin...


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:48 am
 


bootlegga wrote:

The only thing I would change is that they should add line or two to their immigration agreement/permanent residency that requires new immigrants live somewhere other than the big 3 cities until they become Canadian citizens. If they aren't willing to agree to a clause, then then can't come to Canada, simple as that. There's thousands of others who would be willing to do so.


The only way to accomplish that is to match every immigrant with a job before they come here. Ie put em on a temp work visa first, see how that works out, and if they keep their nose clean for 5 years they automatically flip into permanent resident class and after another 10 years can apply for citizen ship.

There aren't people willing to just come to Canada and move to small cities on spec, otherwise they'd already be doing it. Many smaller centers have bad unemployment and don't have the infrastructure to absorb all those immigrants. The people who would be willing to just move to Moosepimple are the ones that are already desperate at home. Having them living off welfare in Canada isn't going to do us or them any good. Ask Brenda how many immigrants who aren't doctors she thinks her little burg could absorb.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:23 am
 


andyt wrote:
bootlegga wrote:

The only thing I would change is that they should add line or two to their immigration agreement/permanent residency that requires new immigrants live somewhere other than the big 3 cities until they become Canadian citizens. If they aren't willing to agree to a clause, then then can't come to Canada, simple as that. There's thousands of others who would be willing to do so.


The only way to accomplish that is to match every immigrant with a job before they come here. Ie put em on a temp work visa first, see how that works out, and if they keep their nose clean for 5 years they automatically flip into permanent resident class and after another 10 years can apply for citizen ship.

There aren't people willing to just come to Canada and move to small cities on spec, otherwise they'd already be doing it. Many smaller centers have bad unemployment and don't have the infrastructure to absorb all those immigrants. The people who would be willing to just move to Moosepimple are the ones that are already desperate at home. Having them living off welfare in Canada isn't going to do us or them any good. Ask Brenda how many immigrants who aren't doctors she thinks her little burg could absorb.


That's totally untrue. One of my best friends family in high school had moved from Hong Kong to Red Deer in the late 1970s. They've thrived and so can others. For what I'm proposing to work, I wouldn't send immigrants to cities under 100,000 (or even 200,000). There are plenty of cities that size in Canada that could use the boost immigration provides. Sending an immigrant to a town or village in the middle of nowhere would be simply stupid.

The reason immigrants want to live in Toronto, Vancouver and to a lesser extent, Montreal, is that there are already hundreds, or even thousands of people from their own country living there, making the transition easier. The problem is that many of these 1st gen immigrants never fully learn either official language or culture of Canada (although their kids do) and form the 'ghettos' anti-immigration activists like you frequently complain about. The fact that the weather in those cities is generally better than Calgary, Edmonton, Saskatoon, Regina and Winnipeg is another minor factor in deciding where to live.

But if an immigrant were offered a choice of coming to Canada and residing in Halifax or Edmonton or Regina, I'm sure they'd still be interested.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:30 am
 


bootlegga wrote:
The fact that the weather in those cities is generally better than Calgary, Edmonton, Saskatoon, Regina and Winnipeg is another minor factor in deciding where to live.

Oh yeah, I remember the first time I heard that Winnipeg had decent sized Phillipino population I recall thinking,"They must be desperate to move from the tropics to the coldest city in Canada." 8O


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:58 am
 


Immigration to any country is NOT a right. It's about time we insisted the liberals among us get their pointy little heads around that idea.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:01 pm
 


bootlegga wrote:

That's totally untrue. One of my best friends family in high school had moved from Hong Kong to Red Deer in the late 1970s. They've thrived and so can others. For what I'm proposing to work, I wouldn't send immigrants to cities under 100,000 (or even 200,000). There are plenty of cities that size in Canada that could use the boost immigration provides. Sending an immigrant to a town or village in the middle of nowhere would be simply stupid.

The reason immigrants want to live in Toronto, Vancouver and to a lesser extent, Montreal, is that there are already hundreds, or even thousands of people from their own country living there, making the transition easier. The problem is that many of these 1st gen immigrants never fully learn either official language or culture of Canada (although their kids do) and form the 'ghettos' anti-immigration activists like you frequently complain about. The fact that the weather in those cities is generally better than Calgary, Edmonton, Saskatoon, Regina and Winnipeg is another minor factor in deciding where to live.

But if an immigrant were offered a choice of coming to Canada and residing in Halifax or Edmonton or Regina, I'm sure they'd still be interested.


Immigrant's number one reason for coming here is to do well economically. They are willing to make all kinds of sacrifices to that end. If they had a better chance of doing that in smaller centers, I'm sure they would be flooding there by the thousands.

Anyway, we're not allowed to restrict movement within Canada, both by UN charter and our own laws. But as I say, if you make that immigrant have a quaranteed, specific job before s/he can even come to Canada, and those jobs were available in the smaller centers, you would get the result of what you're proposing. Once they've settled there and work there for 5 years (as I would stipulate on their temp work permit), they would be much more likely to stay there, although their kids would all leave to go to university in the big centers. (Another reason immigrants don't want to live in small towns - kids go to university, but continue to live with their parents.)

As for your Red Deer story - I don't know one small town in Canada I've been to that didn't have at least one Chinese family running a restaurant there. Most of them thrive too, but you don't really see a lot of their countrymen following them there. We just don't have enough small towns to absorb the 250,000 people we take in every year, whether we need them or not.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:03 pm
 


BartSimpson wrote:
Immigration to any country is NOT a right. It's about time we insisted the liberals among us get their pointy little heads around that idea.


In Canada, at the moment, it's the Conservatives that seem to be having trouble with that idea. They're letting in just as many as the Liberals did, even tho we've just had a huge economic downturn and a huge spike in unemployment. The Conservatives just aren't pointy headed because they sand them down so it doesn't hurt as much when they stick their head up their asses.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:12 pm
 


Quote:
Ask Brenda how many immigrants who aren't doctors she thinks her little burg could absorb.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the towns here are founded by immigrants. Italians and Russians... The 4 doctors in my 1750 people town are all second or 3rd generation, or even 12th...

Then again, it IS small town, and what we need is nurses, and not the howmanymillion$ helipad. We dont want to close down schools, but it is going to happen.

What we need here also, is some openmindedness. Instead of thinking "we dont need the rest of Canada", maybe actually going OUT INTO Canada would be nice. The phrase "oh, you live in that town? I have been there once" coming from someone who lives in the next town, 20 minutes away, just irks me.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:15 pm
 


andyt wrote:
BartSimpson wrote:
Immigration to any country is NOT a right. It's about time we insisted the liberals among us get their pointy little heads around that idea.


In Canada, at the moment, it's the Conservatives that seem to be having trouble with that idea. They're letting in just as many as the Liberals did, even tho we've just had a huge economic downturn and a huge spike in unemployment. The Conservatives just aren't pointy headed because they sand them down so it doesn't hurt as much when they stick their head up their asses.


I said 'liberal' with a small 'l'. :wink:

We have plenty of them in the Republican party so it's not a surprise to me that you have plenty of them in the Conservative party.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:30 pm
 


BartSimpson wrote:
andyt wrote:
BartSimpson wrote:
Immigration to any country is NOT a right. It's about time we insisted the liberals among us get their pointy little heads around that idea.


In Canada, at the moment, it's the Conservatives that seem to be having trouble with that idea. They're letting in just as many as the Liberals did, even tho we've just had a huge economic downturn and a huge spike in unemployment. The Conservatives just aren't pointy headed because they sand them down so it doesn't hurt as much when they stick their head up their asses.


I said 'liberal' with a small 'l'. :wink:

We have plenty of them in the Republican party so it's not a surprise to me that you have plenty of them in the Conservative party.


Except I'm not sure it's just liberals either. I think all politicians are afraid to go up against the immigrant lobby, and they've all figured out how to play the bloc vote game. I mean surely you don't see GWB as a liberal, yet didn't he come out in favor of amnesty and liberal immigration laws?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:54 pm
 


andyt wrote:
As for your Red Deer story - I don't know one small town in Canada I've been to that didn't have at least one Chinese family running a restaurant there. Most of them thrive too, but you don't really see a lot of their countrymen following them there. We just don't have enough small towns to absorb the 250,000 people we take in every year, whether we need them or not.


They didn't run a Chinese restaurant, the father worked as a jeweller and the mom raised the kids.

Nice stereotyping though...


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:00 pm
 


Brenda wrote:
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Ask Brenda how many immigrants who aren't doctors she thinks her little burg could absorb.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the towns here are founded by immigrants. Italians and Russians... The 4 doctors in my 1750 people town are all second or 3rd generation, or even 12th...

Then again, it IS small town, and what we need is nurses, and not the howmanymillion$ helipad. We dont want to close down schools, but it is going to happen.

What we need here also, is some openmindedness. Instead of thinking "we dont need the rest of Canada", maybe actually going OUT INTO Canada would be nice. The phrase "oh, you live in that town? I have been there once" coming from someone who lives in the next town, 20 minutes away, just irks me.


Canada was founded by immigrants, starting with the aboriginals. That doesn't mean that the old patterns are necessarily the ones to follow now. Even the aboriginals were known to have the odd squabble about who was here first, and who was moving in whether the old timers thought it was a good idea or not.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:41 pm
 


There's a demand for immigration. People like it. An average wage earner in Canada takes in $1.5 million over a life time, including pensions, so immigrating is like winning a lottery. The 250,000 immigrant stream is like 250,000 lottery winners a year as most people now work eventually. That's some $375 billion in commitments a year by the federal government. The federal budget is $240 billion by comparison. The Immigration Department makes printing money by the Central Bank look pedestrain. The thing of it is it's popular. People want to see those lottery ticket printing presses at work. Get them rolling and keep them rolling. To question it is considered irrational. In Parliament it's considered a non-partisan issue. Can you imagine questioning a free lunch like that in Parliament.


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