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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 6:52 pm
 


EyeBrock wrote:
Those supposedly skilled types who haven't managed to transfer their status and education/experience etc usually lack communication skills (written and spoken) or their education just wasn't up to it in Canada.


I would have to respectfully disagree. I used to do research in this very field and have done countless interviews with holders of UK passports that spoke the Queens English who were doctors that we turned away unless they retrained to our standards. That would be 1-3 years minimum on average and time where they would be making zero income and unable to apply for any services for coverage for the interim. Without a sponsor would end up paying out of pocket for a shot at a job that may or may not be there when they finish. Hell, my dentist had to go back to Brazil because they wouldn't accept him without retaking his certification and he was better then the resident local and he was a specialist!

The problem is that every province has their own rules and there is zero regulation between the provinces. We bypass the system with visas that exempt people for a short term but then send them back to their country when were are done with them rather then retaining them. The system is arbitrary and designed to keep people out to artificially elevate labour costs domestically.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 9:31 pm
 


Scape wrote:
EyeBrock wrote:
Those supposedly skilled types who haven't managed to transfer their status and education/experience etc usually lack communication skills (written and spoken) or their education just wasn't up to it in Canada.


I would have to respectfully disagree. I used to do research in this very field and have done countless interviews with holders of UK passports that spoke the Queens English who were doctors that we turned away unless they retrained to our standards. That would be 1-3 years minimum on average and time where they would be making zero income and unable to apply for any services for coverage for the interim. Without a sponsor would end up paying out of pocket for a shot at a job that may or may not be there when they finish. Hell, my dentist had to go back to Brazil because they wouldn't accept him without retaking his certification and he was better then the resident local and he was a specialist!

The problem is that every province has their own rules and there is zero regulation between the provinces. We bypass the system with visas that exempt people for a short term but then send them back to their country when were are done with them rather then retaining them. The system is arbitrary and designed to keep people out to artificially elevate labour costs domestically.



Personally I’m not one that gives a pass to anybody who speaks “The Queen’s English.” Too many Brits I’ve met over here have this “I’m special and the Brit’s built Canada etc.” sense of misguided entitlement. They need to prove themselves like any other immigrant. Those colonial days went a long time ago.

The hard fact is, pass our exams and you can work here. Do I really want to recognize Third World qualifications on somebody treating my dying kid over an accredited Canadian doctor? Absolutely not.

If you can’t pass our professional exams, keep driving that cab.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:29 pm
 


There are no exams, we expect them to restart from scratch unless we make exemptions. What there is in equivalentcy in one province is not the same in another as there is no set standard. Also, not all trades offer an equivalentcy option. For anyone who wants to break into those fields they have to start like they have no training at all.

For new trades and developing ones this is understandable but for mainstay trades that have been around for decades or longer there is no excuse for this haphazard approach. There are certainly those who no matter how low the bar is they will never pass but that's not what I am citing here. We are turning away bonafide applicants when other countries are taking them in wholesale. That's not a problem with the applicate, it's a systematic failure.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:34 pm
 


It's not just healthcare either...


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:32 am
 


Exactly, having the relevant skills and then not being able to use them doesn't work. In our case the Mrs DD has to be certified and be a member of CGA (Certified General Accountants Association of Canada. Now currently with what she has nothing which is regocnised and has to go through the entire 2 or 3 year course. But there is a loop hole aswell. If your a member of ACCA (Association of Chartered Certified Accountants) then you just do two small addtitional courses and you get CGA certification.

So from having totally useless skills to having fully recognised skills in a month. Same person, same skills ? So where is the fairness in that ?

If your lucky and have figured out a loop hole to get accredited then the question remains of the dreaded " Canadian Experience "

Having done my homework on both the systems let me give you a brief. Step one to Australian Immigration is having your qualifications assesed by the relevant Australian authority/body, once they asses that your skills are relevant only then you can proceed further. They don't have a huge list of occupations that can apply unlike Canada. But the ones that can have to be assesed. So your half way through after step one.

Canada just sees your occupation and related experience and spends most of the time doing analaysing other information and background checks on the candidate. Once approved you land in Canada as literaly as a new born baby with nothing to show for your past life.

What I've noticed with Autralian immigration is they are primarily concerned with the candidates skills and his ablity to integrate than anything else They outsource the skill assesments to the relevant Australian authorities, for example an accountant gets it from the National institue of Australia or CPAA the chartered accountant association of Australia which can do a better job than the immgration dept and also cuts their work load. Your application starts at step 3 or 4 of the canadian application, which can take anywhere from 6 months to a year.

Require a higher level English skills and if your partner does not have them you pay an extra very heavy application fee, that itself is enough incentive to learn better English for the dependants. Your application also automaticaly enters your profile in the job bank so you very well might have a job by the time you land.

Also they have looked at the countries from where more people migrate, they have assesed and regocnised most of their universities, associations and labour market. For eg: If your degree is from one of the regonised uni's in India then everything becomes much more easier for you. Or if most of your work experience is from a comparable job market example Phillipines then your work experience is also counted etc etc.

Our paticular case for the Mrs, she is a member of the Chartered Association of the Phillipines so that is already recognised by National Institue of Accountants of Australia, same with her over 10 year work experience is in one of the countries listed in the comparable labour markets. So as you can see the major battle is already won. When she lands she lands with the same qualifications and experince she has and does not have to start over from zero. Thats one of the biggest deal breakers !

All in all a much better thought out system in my view. Now only if the Ozzies them selves improve :D

Oh and did I mention they .................... :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 8:34 am
 


Yo know desertdude, I was waiting from you the post like that after the beginning winter in Canada :twisted: :wink:


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 9:18 am
 


Scape wrote:
There are no exams, we expect them to restart from scratch unless we make exemptions. What there is in equivalentcy in one province is not the same in another as there is no set standard. Also, not all trades offer an equivalentcy option. For anyone who wants to break into those fields they have to start like they have no training at all.

For new trades and developing ones this is understandable but for mainstay trades that have been around for decades or longer there is no excuse for this haphazard approach. There are certainly those who no matter how low the bar is they will never pass but that's not what I am citing here. We are turning away bonafide applicants when other countries are taking them in wholesale. That's not a problem with the applicate, it's a systematic failure.



You have some reasonable points. However I'm tired of the Toronto Star type arguments about 'nuclear physicists' driving cabs. If these cab drivers are so clever and committed to a life in Canada, they will upgrade their skills accordingly.

For too long it’s been the “What can Canada do for me?” mentality that has ruled the roost.

I faced a few problems when I got here and it took a while to get over them. We already have enough dead-legs who get through our amazingly lax immigration processes. I’m not sure if relaxing hiring requirements with so many unqualified people baying at the door is a really good idea at the moment.

Sort out or immigration system first, then look at skills transference and accreditation.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 9:21 am
 


I think Scape's point is that we make things unnecessarily complicated for immigrants, brock, with the only intention being to protect professionals that are already working here. Personally I don't have a problem with that, because I would rather we train Canadians to do the jobs we need, than try to get people on the cheap from third world countries that spent the money to train them. Sort of a new form of colonialism. Or is that mercantilism?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 9:25 am
 


As an immigrant I think controls on education and qualifications are prudent. And I agree with you andy, we should be training and encouraging Canadians to do these jobs without importing the brighter people from developing nations that can ill-afford their loss.

I'm still shocked that it took 15 years for the UK to go tits-up after I left. They struggled for all these years without me.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 9:26 am
 


The another question, "do the Canadians want to be trained in that ways? Something stopes them?"


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 9:31 am
 


andyt wrote:
I think Scape's point is that we make things unnecessarily complicated for immigrants, brock, with the only intention being to protect professionals that are already working here. Personally I don't have a problem with that, because I would rather we train Canadians to do the jobs we need, than try to get people on the cheap from third world countries that spent the money to train them. Sort of a new form of colonialism. Or is that mercantilism?


I call it nationalism. Canada is Grrrreeeaat, let a million immigrants in. Lets build a Greater Canada. It's old time nationalism.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 9:32 am
 


We import a tenth of our population every 8 years PF. Some of our cities are 60% immigrant. I'm not sure if it's a good or bad thing but Canada is committed to increasing our population by importing other country's people.

Personally I think we should encourage Canadians to have more kids.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 9:35 am
 


EyeBrock wrote:
We import a tenth of our population every 8 years PF. Some of our cities are 60% immigrant. I'm not sure if it's a good or bad thing but Canada is committed to increasing our population by importing other country's people.

Personally I think we should encourage Canadians to have more kids.

It's difficult to change their type of thinking, having child is an expensive thing, in 3 world countries they are just not thinking about the future of their kids.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 9:36 am
 


A tax break or three would encourage me to have another little Brock.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 9:38 am
 


EyeBrock wrote:
A tax break or three would encourage me to have another little Brock.

The government will make it in a simple way, they'll damage all condoms in the country and rebuy all anti pregnant pills. :wink:


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