[salmankhan]

Hi All,
I am a Canadian PR and I applied for my wife sponsorship at Islamabad embassy around 10 months ago. We got Nikkahfied and Rukhsati is not held yet So I specified that in forms as suggested by various people to be truthful as possible otherwise they ask for pictures that you taken on your honeymoon and all time spent together. I attached all pictures of ceremony, Original nikkah nama in urdu and english and my phone bills to show that I was in contact with my wife.

Now my wife got a procedural fairness letter from immigration officer which states that "You do not meet the requirements of section 4" which is :

"For the purpose of these regulations, no foreign national should be considered a spouse, a common law partner if the marriage is not genuine and was entered into primarily for the purpose of acquiring any status or privilege under the Act."

Further immigration officer asked "Please advise what plans have you and your sponsor discussed if your application for permanent residence is not approved" and advised to submit substantial evidence to ensure all elements of your relationship to your sponsor are considered before a final decision is made.

Now my questions are :

1 - What documents should I submit now as they already have original nikkah nama ,ceremony pictures and my telephone call records ?

2 - We are planning rukhsati in November 2010 regardless of the immigration decision and thats what we are going to write them.

3 - In case they refuse the immigration after all above documents what should be my next step?

Please advice.


Thanks in advance,

Salman

[Guy_Fawkes]

What is ...

- a Canadian PR
- Nikkahfied
- Rukhsati
- Original nikkah nama in urdu

[Brenda]

I can answer one of them
A Canadian PR is a Permanent Resident.

[jeff744]

Guy_Fawkes wrote:

What is ...

- a Canadian PR
- Nikkahfied
- Rukhsati
- Original nikkah nama in urdu

- Canadian Permanent Resident
- Equivalent of a wedding
- Where the bride is officially taken from her household and brought into his
- Marriage certificate (urdu is a language)

[kenmore]

It means we will enter Canada no matter how we have to do it.. even pull up in a canoe at Halifax and plead for status.. hello!

[Guy_Fawkes]

Im guessing he was married after getting citizenship?

[Benn]

salmankhan wrote:

Hi All,
I am a Canadian PR and I applied for my wife sponsorship at Islamabad embassy around 10 months ago. We got Nikkahfied and Rukhsati is not held yet So I specified that in forms as suggested by various people to be truthful as possible otherwise they ask for pictures that you taken on your honeymoon and all time spent together. I attached all pictures of ceremony, Original nikkah nama in urdu and english and my phone bills to show that I was in contact with my wife.

Now my wife got a procedural fairness letter from immigration officer which states that "You do not meet the requirements of section 4" which is :

"For the purpose of these regulations, no foreign national should be considered a spouse, a common law partner if the marriage is not genuine and was entered into primarily for the purpose of acquiring any status or privilege under the Act."

Further immigration officer asked "Please advise what plans have you and your sponsor discussed if your application for permanent residence is not approved" and advised to submit substantial evidence to ensure all elements of your relationship to your sponsor are considered before a final decision is made.

Now my questions are :

1 - What documents should I submit now as they already have original nikkah nama ,ceremony pictures and my telephone call records ?

2 - We are planning rukhsati in November 2010 regardless of the immigration decision and thats what we are going to write them.

3 - In case they refuse the immigration after all above documents what should be my next step?

Please advice.


Thanks in advance,

Salman

Obviously there is just too much we don't know about your file.

Having formerly worked for in Migration Integrity for CIC, although rather briefly, I can offer this advice.

Ask your CIC office how you can appeal or check their website, maybe its there too. Don't ask online questions about process in any online immigration forums as every CIC office does their process in a different order so you'll just get more confused. Islamabad is one of the worst for what order they do things in and I never had a clue what they were doing by looking at their files.

So you have pics from the wedding, phone bills and a certificate, so does everyone else. There is a lot more they could have found that made them distrust the marriage's legitimacy. Something that was said in an interview, history of forged or illegitimate marriage documents from the region your got yours from, phone history issues, the way you met, history of her or her family trying to get to Canada or another country unsuccessfully in the past...etc etc. I'm really not going to get into how we investigated people as the point is to catch fraud not help it be avoided.

What other documents you can give that might help? Do you have records of gifts given outside or the wedding? Did you send her flowers, did she send you a love letter or a card? Has any of your family met her outside of the wedding? How often have you traveled to see her? Depending on customs, if she plans to work have you looked into were she might work, what she might do if not working? Have you spoken to clergy at any place of worship about her a lot who can vouch for this?

Quote:

2 - We are planning rukhsati in November 2010 regardless of the immigration decision and thats what we are going to write them.

Rukhsati being the bride taken into your household? Isn't your household in Canada? So are you saying you will get her into the country even if told not to? Maybe I misunderstand something otherwise you just admitted to conspiring to break a federal law, which is not a smart move.

You could also blow you money on an Immigration consultant, they are a bunch of useless weasels who wish they could be real lawyers (or if they are lawyers then wish they could be good ones) but hiring them does help the local economy.

[Benn]

Guy_Fawkes wrote:

Im guessing he was married after getting citizenship?

It used to be a PR could sponsor a spouse. Some people think its far fetched that a group of people (families) would plan spousal immigration fraud (not saying that is what is happening here) years in advance but it happens more than you'd expect. I'd get into examples but then again, I don't care to give out ideas since this is a public forum.

[pakistanif4life]

salmankhan wrote:

Hi All,
I am a Canadian PR and I applied for my wife sponsorship at Islamabad embassy around 10 months ago. We got Nikkahfied and Rukhsati is not held yet So I specified that in forms as suggested by various people to be truthful as possible otherwise they ask for pictures that you taken on your honeymoon and all time spent together. I attached all pictures of ceremony, Original nikkah nama in urdu and english and my phone bills to show that I was in contact with my wife.

Now my wife got a procedural fairness letter from immigration officer which states that "You do not meet the requirements of section 4" which is :

"For the purpose of these regulations, no foreign national should be considered a spouse, a common law partner if the marriage is not genuine and was entered into primarily for the purpose of acquiring any status or privilege under the Act."

Further immigration officer asked "Please advise what plans have you and your sponsor discussed if your application for permanent residence is not approved" and advised to submit substantial evidence to ensure all elements of your relationship to your sponsor are considered before a final decision is made.

Now my questions are :

1 - What documents should I submit now as they already have original nikkah nama ,ceremony pictures and my telephone call records ?

2 - We are planning rukhsati in November 2010 regardless of the immigration decision and thats what we are going to write them.

3 - In case they refuse the immigration after all above documents what should be my next step?

Please advice.


Thanks in advance,

Salman

Ahhh a fellow Pakistani eh?

I have a contact in CIC who may be able to help but no guarantees included. If you are interested contact me.

You still have to find out why they consider the marriage not genuine. Maybe some imput from the wife would do... i dunno. Maybe u shud have applied after the Ruksati. Did you send marriage certificate n everything?

Details over the documents etc you need n other stuff can be found here. Its helped me in the past whatever the case be. Its got all the info:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/index.asp

1-Try this:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/index.asp

Otherwise passport, passport copy, marriage certificate, etc etc. The site has the list of documents needed though. I came on student visa so personally i have limited info.

2- They don't know what the hell a Ruksati is. Don't even try to explain. They think we are hillbillies and sometimes assume the worst just as one of the fellows here thought u wanted to break the law. North Americans know very little about anything outside or other peoples culture and we have the occasional fanatic now and then. They will ask for a marriage ring, pictures together etc. That's the proof they are looking for but somehow u have to explain your concept of marriage is different and still have proof. Phone conversations are not enough. And the people at the embassy or from CiC are going to be the worst of the worst. They will literally torture you. If you want an example. They caused me to miss my flight and 1000$ when I was applying for my study permit which would take 3 weeks and took 1 and half month instead. I had to run almost every day to the embassy 2 hours away in abu dhabi to make sure they did'nt make me miss my second flight. That was in UAE, AD. In Pakistan it is much worse! Be prepared for it. I am a journalist and i get easily annoyed which is hard not to do but trust me showing a hint of annoyance is the worst thing to do. The embassy is like a prison like environment.

3- And they are very likely to deny you immigration even with the right documents. Its happened to people and it happens to a lot of us. If you spend some time on this site and see how edgy some people are when it comes to immigrants you will know that there's an irrational fear of immigrants. If they deny your application don't be worried and leave it and consider Dubai as an option. You don't get citizenship true but having lived both in Canada and UAE I consider UAE the better option for migrants. The main reason being racism in the workplace in Canada and your education will not be accepted. Canadian experience a requirement. Be ready to be downgraded or take extra courses in college or uni. If you did masters you will get a bachelorz degree. If you have a degree from back home its diploma. I hope you have a strong base here and a lot of money because for the first 2-3 years its an uphill struggle. After 5-6 years you will be well set and maybe even better off than in Dubai who knows? If u have that time go for it. The early years will be very difficult though. Carefully consider what I say. Pakistanis who are MBBS and work as Executives are working at Pizza stores here!

I will be willing to provide any assistance in my power that you may require. We have people working for the empowerment of Pakistanis here. All the best!

[pakistanif4life]

Quote:

Rukhsati being the bride taken into your household? Isn't your household in Canada? So are you saying you will get her into the country even if told not to? Maybe I misunderstand something otherwise you just admitted to conspiring to break a federal law, which is not a smart move.

You could also blow you money on an Immigration consultant, they are a bunch of useless weasels who wish they could be real lawyers (or if they are lawyers then wish they could be good ones) but hiring them does help the local economy.

Ruksati is just a marriage ceremony sort of thing. Its a cultural thing. Its the last part of the marriage and the bride goes to her husbands home. That's all it means. The parents say their goodbyes and she goes to her husbands household. This is not breaking any Canadian law. lolz. After that comes the Walima. The final ceremony. We have more things than a normal wedding ceremony you see.

And if hes applying for immigrant status himself his household is in Pakistan. And considering the Nikah etc has taken place the girl is in Pakistan too otherwise she would simply sponsor him. You have completely misunderstood what the guy has said.

[Brenda]

From what I understand, he is PR, and sponsoring her. I understand he is in Canada, not in Pakistan.
So if his household is in Canada, which is not stated it is not, he will be breaking the law if he will bring her into his household without the necessary papers.

Then again, I wonder if us responding to him does anything, since he just copy/pasted his question here, and never came back.

[martin14]

In other words, just more bullshit that we as Canadians have to 'adapt' to.


Get a fucking piece of paper, and adapt to our way.



Nice new citizens we have coming.

[Thanos]

[pakistanif4life]

Brenda wrote:

From what I understand, he is PR, and sponsoring her. I understand he is in Canada, not in Pakistan.
So if his household is in Canada, which is not stated it is not, he will be breaking the law if he will bring her into his household without the necessary papers.

Then again, I wonder if us responding to him does anything, since he just copy/pasted his question here, and never came back.

I think you're right. I thought he was applying for immigration for himself which is a common frenzy back at home.

But here I disagree... This does not necessarily mean Canada but could also mean his family home in Pakistan. Its a cultural thing but the house of the parents family refers to the family house. And many immigrants coming now especially married ones generally have parents in their host countries they left behind. Obviously right u don't move with your entire family if you can't support them? People usually come one by one or a married couple comes. But they never bring their parents until they are either well settled or get citizenship.

But in this case one thing is certain, he should elaborate more and be specific. CiC looks at each and every minor detail and from what I have experienced hes going to have some big trouble if he can't explain himself and prove to them he has the rite documents. The documents are just preliminary. The background checks i'm told operate on mere suspicion. Any hint of anything suspicious and ur chances r gone. He can take help from one of our immigrant support groups i suppose.

And u r right. That's his one and only post.
But at least sum ppl tried to help a guy in need. Rite?

"Whatever our biases and personal vendettas maybe what should and must remain is humanity, the will of one human being to help another. That is what makes us human.
D Edi"

Thanx.

[Benn]

pakistanif4life

I worded my post concerning Rukhsati in a way that indicated I was looking for a better understanding of the event. Then added the part about breaking the law IF it did indeed mean he was taking his wife into his Canadian home.

This is one of the reasons that about 10 years ago or so CIC stopped allowing 3rd country applications. That was when an applicant could have been from one country and submitted their file in another country as long as they were willing to travel their for interviews. While this did make it faster for the applicants, assuming they had money to travel, but the problem was CIC offices in Europe did not understand all the cultural aspects from these countries which made fraud that much easier and really slowed things down when we had to research all this stuff when it came up.

What we did know is the cultural aspects of the country we were sent to service and I know the guys in Islamabad knew their stuff cold because as much as one might not want to admit it fraud and dishonesty is very high among applicants in that region and if you don't know your stuff you will get trampled over by the applicants. If his marriage is not being recognized is on more than a whim of the Officer. Its just easier for some people to feel they are being victimized than face the fact they don't qualify, and you know what? I for one don't want people with victimization attitudes moving to this country.

In the end there are so many people wanting to come to our country we can afford to be picky, no one has the right to immigrate here, its a privilege we allow them.