[SprCForr]

7 days, 7 weeks, 7 years, it matters not young padawan. Sorry, I just saw Star Wars.

The mere mention of a classified op constitutes a breach of security. If this guy was in fact a CWO, he'd know that in spades. He'd also know the penalties involved. The painful truth is spelled out to you clearly when you sign it. Like I said earlier, if you follow the timeline with regard to training, experience, rank, and length of service it has to be B.S.

Another innocent victim of an unregistered, un-licsenced war story.

[-MC-]

Well I never said he was telling the truth, only that my friend...and then I, were brought to believe it were possible. Its a good thing you know the man, maybe you can find out what exactly went down. I have really limited details.

[Sessine]

Hello,

Just joined today, Oct. 26, 2009. Name's James Bain and I am very pleased to have found this site.
Onto the topic at hand. I am not sure what 'advisory' capacity the Canadian military may have had during this period (I mean the full thirty year period, not just the many years the Americans were involved). As to Canadians joining the various branches of the U.S. military, well, those were individual decisions and those men served as American soldiers. Any casualties suffered were the reponsibility of the man who made the decision to join the military of a country he owed NO allegiance to, and the government he was employed by. I say employed because these men were little better than mercenaries. My Grandparents and Great-grandparents, veterans of The Great War and W.W. II both, were of the opinion that Canada should not be beholden to these men in any way. I agree.
There's my say, for what it's worth.

[Guy_Fawkes]

Wow your first post is a necro you have a bright future indeed... here is the card you forgot to draw.

[stemmer]

http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/remembers/sub. ... up06/icmic

Quote:

he mandate of the ICCS in Vietnam was to supervise the cease-fires and withdrawal of French troops and to supervise the movement of refugees. The ICSC Laos was to supervise the cease-fire and promote negotiations between the Royal Laotian government and the Pathel Lao. Canadian participation in the ICSC Laos was 1954 - 1958 and then 1961 - 1969. The ICSC Cambodia monitored the Geneva Accords and helped the Khmer resistance forces disband and return home and the Viet Minh to leave the country. Much of the work was done from 1954 to 1955 and Canada had only token representation after 1958. The commission withdrew completely in 1969.

http://www.canadianencyclopedia.ca/inde ... RTA0008367

Quote:

Vietnam War
ARTICLE CONTENTS: | Suggested Reading | Links to Other Sites

The Vietnam War had its roots in the French colonial conquest of Indochina in the mid-19th century and in the nationalist movements that arose to oppose it. At the end of WWII, on 2 September 1945, the Democratic Republic of Viet-Nam was proclaimed an independent country by Ho Chi Minh; Hanoi was its capital. The French attempt to reconquer Vietnam met with defeat in the valley of Dien Bien Phu on 2 May 1954. The July Geneva Agreements provided for a cease-fire and a provisional military demarcation line at the 17th parallel, pending nationwide elections for reunification in July 1956. Western efforts to divide the country permanently by creating a Vietnamese republic in Saigon, coupled with the refusal to hold the promised elections, led to rebellion in the S, massive US military intervention and the ensuing civil war.



Keywords
Wars


The failure of US policy became apparent in February 1968 when 525 000 American soldiers were unable to stop the insurgents' Tet Offensive. In Jan 1973 the Paris Peace Accords were signed, upholding the unity and territorial integrity of Vietnam and providing for the orderly withdrawal of US troops, the release of 200 000 civilian detainees and POWs and the organization of free and democratic elections in South Vietnam. The refusal to implement these last conditions provoked an armed insurrection and on 30 April 1975 Saigon fell. The cost of the war was staggering: 1.7 million dead, 3 million wounded and maimed, and 13 million refugees. The US dropped 7 million tons of bombs, 75 million litres of herbicide and lost 10 000 helicopters and warplanes. Some 56 000 US soldiers were killed and another 303 000 were wounded. The direct cost of the war was $140 billion; indirect costs are estimated at $900 billion.

During the years 1954 to 1975 Canada served on 2 international truce commissions and provided medical supplies and technical assistance. Canadian diplomats were involved in negotiations between Washington and Hanoi and successive Canadian governments, both Liberal and Conservative, maintained that Ottawa was an impartial and objective peacekeeper, an innocent and helpful bystander negotiating for peace and administering aid to victims of the war. However, Cabinet papers, confidential stenographic minutes of the truce commissions as well as top-secret American government cables revealed Canada to be a willing ally of US counterinsurgency efforts.

Canada's record on the truce commissions was a partisan one, rooted in the presumption of Hanoi's guilt and Saigon's innocence and designed to discredit North Vietnam while exonerating South Vietnam from its obligations to uphold the Geneva Agreements. Canadian delegates engaged in espionage for the US Central Intelligence Agency and aided the covert introduction of American arms and personnel into South Vietnam while they spotted for US bombers over North Vietnam. Canadian commissioners shielded the US chemical defoliant program from public inquiry, parlayed American threats of expanded war to Hanoi, and penned the reports legitimating both the rupture of the Geneva Agreements and the US air war over North Vietnam. Ottawa would later assert that these actions were necessary to counterbalance the activities of the Eastern bloc countries with whom they shared membership on the truce commissions.

Canadian aid during the war went only to South Vietnam, $29 million 1950-75, routed through the COLOMBO PLAN and the Canadian Red Cross. Although humanitarian in appearance, Canadian assistance was an integral part of the Free World Assistance Program, co-ordinated by the US Department of State with the International Security Office of the Pentagon as the point of contact. In the field, Canadian capital assistance was regulated by the US-RVN Health Defense Agreement and administered by the International Military Assistance Force Office in Saigon. On a number of occasions, Ottawa stopped the shipment of ecumenical medical relief to civilian victims of the war in North Vietnam.

At home, 500 firms sold $2.5 billion of war materiel (ammunition, napalm, aircraft engines and explosives) to the Pentagon. Another $10 billion in food, beverages, berets and boots for the troops was exported to the US, as well as nickel, copper, lead, brass and oil for shell casings, wiring, plate armour and military transport. In Canada unemployment fell to record low levels of 3.9%, the gross domestic product rose by 6% yearly, and capital expenditure expanded exponentially in manufacturing and mining as US firms invested more than $3 billion in Canada to offset shrinking domestic capacity as a result of the war. The herbicide "Agent Orange" was tested for use in Vietnam at CFB Gagetown, NB. US bomber pilots practised carpet-bombing runs over Suffield, Alta, and North Battleford, Sask, before their tours of duty in Southeast Asia. And the results of the only successful peace initiative to Hanoi - that of Canadian diplomat Chester RONNING - would be kept from public knowledge in order not to harm official US-Canadian relations. Ten thousand young Canadian men fought in the US armed forces in the war. At the same time 20 000 American draft-dodgers and 12 000 army deserters found refuge in Canada.

[BartSimpson]

stemmer wrote:

http://www.canadianencyclopedia.ca/inde ... RTA0008367

Quote:

Vietnam War
ARTICLE CONTENTS: | Suggested Reading | Links to Other Sites

The Vietnam War had its roots in the French colonial conquest of Indochina in the mid-19th century and in the nationalist movements that arose to oppose it. At the end of WWII, on 2 September 1945, the Democratic Republic of Viet-Nam was proclaimed an independent country by Ho Chi Minh; Hanoi was its capital. The French attempt to reconquer Vietnam met with defeat in the valley of Dien Bien Phu on 2 May 1954. The July Geneva Agreements provided for a cease-fire and a provisional military demarcation line at the 17th parallel, pending nationwide elections for reunification in July 1956. Western efforts to divide the country permanently by creating a Vietnamese republic in Saigon, coupled with the refusal to hold the promised elections, led to rebellion in the S, massive US military intervention and the ensuing civil war.



Keywords
Wars


The failure of US policy became apparent in February 1968 when 525 000 American soldiers were unable to stop the insurgents' Tet Offensive. In Jan 1973 the Paris Peace Accords were signed, upholding the unity and territorial integrity of Vietnam and providing for the orderly withdrawal of US troops, the release of 200 000 civilian detainees and POWs and the organization of free and democratic elections in South Vietnam. The refusal to implement these last conditions provoked an armed insurrection and on 30 April 1975 Saigon fell. The cost of the war was staggering: 1.7 million dead, 3 million wounded and maimed, and 13 million refugees. The US dropped 7 million tons of bombs, 75 million litres of herbicide and lost 10 000 helicopters and warplanes. Some 56 000 US soldiers were killed and another 303 000 were wounded. The direct cost of the war was $140 billion; indirect costs are estimated at $900 billion.

During the years 1954 to 1975 Canada served on 2 international truce commissions and provided medical supplies and technical assistance. Canadian diplomats were involved in negotiations between Washington and Hanoi and successive Canadian governments, both Liberal and Conservative, maintained that Ottawa was an impartial and objective peacekeeper, an innocent and helpful bystander negotiating for peace and administering aid to victims of the war. However, Cabinet papers, confidential stenographic minutes of the truce commissions as well as top-secret American government cables revealed Canada to be a willing ally of US counterinsurgency efforts.

Canada's record on the truce commissions was a partisan one, rooted in the presumption of Hanoi's guilt and Saigon's innocence and designed to discredit North Vietnam while exonerating South Vietnam from its obligations to uphold the Geneva Agreements. Canadian delegates engaged in espionage for the US Central Intelligence Agency and aided the covert introduction of American arms and personnel into South Vietnam while they spotted for US bombers over North Vietnam. Canadian commissioners shielded the US chemical defoliant program from public inquiry, parlayed American threats of expanded war to Hanoi, and penned the reports legitimating both the rupture of the Geneva Agreements and the US air war over North Vietnam. Ottawa would later assert that these actions were necessary to counterbalance the activities of the Eastern bloc countries with whom they shared membership on the truce commissions.

Canadian aid during the war went only to South Vietnam, $29 million 1950-75, routed through the COLOMBO PLAN and the Canadian Red Cross. Although humanitarian in appearance, Canadian assistance was an integral part of the Free World Assistance Program, co-ordinated by the US Department of State with the International Security Office of the Pentagon as the point of contact. In the field, Canadian capital assistance was regulated by the US-RVN Health Defense Agreement and administered by the International Military Assistance Force Office in Saigon. On a number of occasions, Ottawa stopped the shipment of ecumenical medical relief to civilian victims of the war in North Vietnam.

At home, 500 firms sold $2.5 billion of war materiel (ammunition, napalm, aircraft engines and explosives) to the Pentagon. Another $10 billion in food, beverages, berets and boots for the troops was exported to the US, as well as nickel, copper, lead, brass and oil for shell casings, wiring, plate armour and military transport. In Canada unemployment fell to record low levels of 3.9%, the gross domestic product rose by 6% yearly, and capital expenditure expanded exponentially in manufacturing and mining as US firms invested more than $3 billion in Canada to offset shrinking domestic capacity as a result of the war. The herbicide "Agent Orange" was tested for use in Vietnam at CFB Gagetown, NB. US bomber pilots practised carpet-bombing runs over Suffield, Alta, and North Battleford, Sask, before their tours of duty in Southeast Asia. And the results of the only successful peace initiative to Hanoi - that of Canadian diplomat Chester RONNING - would be kept from public knowledge in order not to harm official US-Canadian relations. Ten thousand young Canadian men fought in the US armed forces in the war. At the same time 20 000 American draft-dodgers and 12 000 army deserters found refuge in Canada.

There's some big holes in this quote. I highly recommend that anyone reading this not take it at face value and would encourage reading a variety of sources on this topic before forming any conclusions.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

This has little to do with the topic title but I just had to comment about that dude claiming the scars on his back were from shrapnel.

My father served with the British forces at the very end of WW2. He was then stationed in the Middle East in '47-'48. He was never wounded.
Now, he used to have fun with bullshitters and REMF's that would bullshit about their "war" experiences. When he was a child, he was bitten on the leg by a dog. It left some pretty decent permanent scars. When he'd run into one of these bullshitters, he'd roll up his pantleg, point to the scars and just say "shrapnel". It usually shut 'em up after

[BeaverFever]

Also, CSIS wasnt formed until 1984, taking over domestic security intelligence duties over from the RCMP. Canadian intelligence activity overseas was very limited prior to 9/11.

Pretty sure Hormel's right on this one.

RCD = Royal Canadian Dragoons, an armoured regiment based in Petawawa, ON.

As for rank, If you are talking about 2 chevrons on the shoulder, he is a Corporal. If it is 2 stripes on the sleve, he is a Captain.

[4plait]

I was one of 3000+ Canadian that served during the Viet Nam era... I had been in the Canadian Army :RCEME (Militia)
RCAF : Reserve & Active . .then went to Buffalo to enlist...ended up flying L-19's and T-42's , Georgia, Alabama, Texas, Oklahoma ..and took Air Traffic Control at Keesler AFB. No regrets...check out :
Unknown Warriors: Canadians in Vietnam by Fred Gaffen

[martin14]

4plait wrote:

I was one of 3000+ Canadian that served during the Viet Nam era... I had been in the Canadian Army :RCEME (Militia)
RCAF : Reserve & Active . .then went to Buffalo to enlist...ended up flying L-19's and T-42's , Georgia, Alabama, Texas, Oklahoma ..and took Air Traffic Control at Keesler AFB. No regrets...check out :
Unknown Warriors: Canadians in Vietnam by Fred Gaffen

A truly thankless job.


What made you sign up for it ?

[BartSimpson]

4plait wrote:

I was one of 3000+ Canadian that served during the Viet Nam era... I had been in the Canadian Army :RCEME (Militia)
RCAF : Reserve & Active . .then went to Buffalo to enlist...ended up flying L-19's and T-42's , Georgia, Alabama, Texas, Oklahoma ..and took Air Traffic Control at Keesler AFB. No regrets...check out :
Unknown Warriors: Canadians in Vietnam by Fred Gaffen

An old friend of mine (now passed) used to say that when he was in Vietnam he was "stationed at Kum Quat Yam, just south of Chu Mai Dong."

[PENATRATOR]

http://www.mysteriesofcanada.com/Milita ... _lemon.htm

Read up on this NORTH AMERICAN hero.
His citation is truly outstanding

[stemmer]

Interesting documentary on CBC....

Quote:

Vietnam may have been America's war but Canada was heavily involved — for and against. Canada harboured American draft dodgers and helped supervise ceasefires. But at the same time, about 30,000 Canadians volunteered to fight in southeast Asia. And there was Canada's involvement in secret missions, weapons testing and arms production. CBC Archives looks at Canada's role in the Vietnam War.

http://archives.cbc.ca/war_conflict/vie ... pics/1413/

Quote:

Broadcast Date: July 15, 1973
The sensational 1971 leak of confidential Pentagon documents sheds light on Canada's position on, and activities in, Vietnam. A McGill University professor has obtained portions of the Pentagon Papers that he says prove Canada's complicity in the war. On CBC Radio's Sunday Magazine, Senator Paul Martin and two university professors weigh in on the matter.

http://archives.cbc.ca/war_conflict/vie ... pics/1413/