"Over the lifetime of this program, the decade or so, the per-aircraft cost of the 2,443 aircraft we want has doubled in real terms," said Ashton Carter, the under secretary of defense for acquisition, technology and logistics....
"The facts regarding this program are truly troubling," said McCain. "No program should expect to be continued with that kind of track record, especially in our current fiscal climate," said McCain. "It seems to me we have to start at least considering alternatives"
Just another couple of left-wingers with an anti-military agenda I would guess.
"Over the lifetime of this program, the decade or so, the per-aircraft cost of the 2,443 aircraft we want has doubled in real terms," said Ashton Carter, the under secretary of defense for acquisition, technology and logistics....
"The facts regarding this program are truly troubling," said McCain. "No program should expect to be continued with that kind of track record, especially in our current fiscal climate," said McCain. "It seems to me we have to start at least considering alternatives"
Just another couple of left-wingers with an anti-military agenda I would guess.
So now what, the US won't buy them, but we will?
Maybe they want to sell their allies Buicks (F-35s) so they can have more Cadillacs (F-22s) which they have ZERO intention of sharing, but would integrate well with the F-35s of their allies.
"Over the lifetime of this program, the decade or so, the per-aircraft cost of the 2,443 aircraft we want has doubled in real terms," said Ashton Carter, the under secretary of defense for acquisition, technology and logistics....
"The facts regarding this program are truly troubling," said McCain. "No program should expect to be continued with that kind of track record, especially in our current fiscal climate," said McCain. "It seems to me we have to start at least considering alternatives"
Just another couple of left-wingers with an anti-military agenda I would guess.
So now what, the US won't buy them, but we will?
Maybe they want to sell their allies Buicks (F-35s) so they can have more Cadillacs (F-22s) which they have ZERO intention of sharing, but would integrate well with the F-35s of their allies.
Canada is the one country we should be selling the F-22s to. I wouldn't trust the rest of the world.
Arctic_Menace
CKA Uber
Posts: 17114
Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 6:17 am
Well for us it also makes sense. We share a border and are the two members of NORAD.
weaselways
Active Member
Posts: 122
Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 6:19 am
We have the US Denfense concerned about unabated cost increases in the F35 programme but our PM & Defense can see nothing but daisys. The mantra 70 to 75M keeps reverberating. Are they blind, living in their own world or do they have a cost limiting codicil in their back pocket?
saturn_656
CKA Elite
Posts: 4048
Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 7:05 am
weaselways wrote:
We have the US Denfense concerned about unabated cost increases in the F35 programme but our PM & Defense can see nothing but daisys. The mantra 70 to 75M keeps reverberating. Are they blind, living in their own world or do they have a cost limiting codicil in their back pocket?
We are sheltered from having to pay for certain development costs. What the US pays is not necessarily the same price that we will pay.
In other words, we get a discount. Exactly how much? Not sure.
"There have been detailed briefings from the Department of National Defence on this, there's a memorandum of understanding . . . We are sheltered from research and development costs," Harper told reporters.
One media report said Harper, speaking French, claimed the agreements mean the U.S. will pay extra development costs and Canada will buy the planes for a fixed price.
stokes
Forum Elite
Posts: 1661
Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 7:56 am
I cant believe how quickly these costs are spiraling, me thinks some manufacturers are hoping for record profits....no wonder the USA is in so much trouble
DerbyX
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Posts: 20757
Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 8:08 am
Meanwhile the Super Hornet is going for 55 million flyaway, the ability to build in Canada and the reliability of an already proven aircraft.
Arctic_Menace
CKA Uber
Posts: 17114
Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 8:37 am
DerbyX wrote:
Meanwhile the Super Hornet is going for 55 million flyaway, the ability to build in Canada and the reliability of an already proven aircraft.
But all our "enemies" are buying and developing new and super flashy stealth jets so we need them too!
saturn_656
CKA Elite
Posts: 4048
Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 9:30 am
DerbyX wrote:
Meanwhile the Super Hornet is going for 55 million flyaway, the ability to build in Canada and the reliability of an already proven aircraft.
Why go through the trouble of setting up a domestic production line for a mere 65 aircraft?
Not even worth the bother.
It may be cheaper than the F-35, but remember, it is yesterdays plane.
andyt
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Posts: 14678
Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 9:32 am
saturn_656 wrote:
DerbyX wrote:
Meanwhile the Super Hornet is going for 55 million flyaway, the ability to build in Canada and the reliability of an already proven aircraft.
Why go through the trouble of setting up a domestic production line for a mere 65 aircraft?
Not even worth the bother.
It may be cheaper than the F-35, but remember, it is yesterdays plane.
If the US doesn't buy the F35, won't the manufacturer have to increase the price for us, since they would make so much less profit?
BartSimpson
CKA Uber
Posts: 30228
Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 9:35 am
GreenTiger wrote:
Canada is the one country we should be selling the F-22s to. I wouldn't trust the rest of the world.
The security problem for the US with Canada is Quebeck and the proven unreliability of Quebeckers with regards to matters of US national security.
Point of fact: When Quebeck had their sovereignty vote way back when the CF had to move a number of sensitive assets out of Quebeck prior to the vote because the Clinton Administration reserved the right to attack and destroy any such assets that fell into the hands of a sovereign Quebeck.
In 1974 when war nearly broke out between the US and France (yes, really due to near critical issues between Nixon and Pomidou over France's quasi-Soviet orbit and alignment with anti-Israeli factions in the ME) the US bulked up forces and called up reserves for 'training exercises' along the Quebeck border in the expectation that hostlities with France would precipitate hostilities with what was then a critically left-wing Quebeck.
It's not so much that the US doesn't trust Canada, we just don't trust Quebeck.
weaselways
Active Member
Posts: 122
Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 9:39 am
F35 is a first strike aircraft. Since when is Canada a first strike nation? The theaters of operation Canada has been in (Iraq, Kosovo, Lybia) have not required "stealth" on our role as support. DerbyX is correct in suggesting the Superhornet would be a more appropriate replacement to the CF18. The SuperH while not a "fifth" generation aircraft is not too far from it. Hey and it has two engines too, a safeguard for Arctic reconnaissance.
DerbyX
CKA Uber
Posts: 20757
Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 9:39 am
saturn_656 wrote:
DerbyX wrote:
Meanwhile the Super Hornet is going for 55 million flyaway, the ability to build in Canada and the reliability of an already proven aircraft.
Why go through the trouble of setting up a domestic production line for a mere 65 aircraft?
Not even worth the bother.
It may be cheaper than the F-35, but remember, it is yesterdays plane.
1) Who says a F18E purchase would only be 65 as opposed to 120? Even without the domestic production plan we are still getting a cheaper plane.
2) Yesterdays plane? Hardly. Its stealth capabilities are second only to the F35 & F22 and quite frankly Canada has little need for stealth capabilities.
saturn_656
CKA Elite
Posts: 4048
Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 9:45 am
DerbyX wrote:
1) Who says a F18E purchase would only be 65 as opposed to 120? Even without the domestic production plan we are still getting a cheaper plane.
The goal shouldn't be to find the "cheaper" plane, follow that to its logical conclusion and Air Command will end up with shit.
Quote:
2) Yesterdays plane? Hardly. Its stealth capabilities are second only to the F35 & F22 and quite frankly Canada has little need for stealth capabilities.
Little need? Better call up DND and let them know.
They must have missed the memo that came across your desk.
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