[saturn_656]

Shadow_Flanker wrote:

With all the negative news about the JSF program, the feds should have a back up plan incase the yanks do decide to scrap the whole thing. Say, have a preliminary list of suitable aircraft on hand, and if the JSF program gets canned by the U.S., then we immediately call up the manufacturers on the list and hold a competition.

A fly-off between the Silent Eagle and the Super Hornet?

Boeing would be happier than a pig in shit.

[Shadow_Flanker]

saturn_656 wrote:

Shadow_Flanker wrote:

With all the negative news about the JSF program, the feds should have a back up plan incase the yanks do decide to scrap the whole thing. Say, have a preliminary list of suitable aircraft on hand, and if the JSF program gets canned by the U.S., then we immediately call up the manufacturers on the list and hold a competition.

A fly-off between the Silent Eagle and the Super Hornet?

Boeing would be happier than a pig in shit.

Silent Eagle and Super Hornet would be a very good choice (i'd pick Silent Eagle myself) if JSF gets the axe, but I'm somewhat skeptical about this country staying with the U.S. makes. Not because of their performance stats, but more from the political and economic side.

The yanks have alot of restrictions when it comes to technology and are very weary about sharing/transfering that tech with other nations, even their allies. ITAR (International Traffic in Arms Regulations) is quite a barrier when it comes to military procurment from foreign nations, not just for buying but also with maintenance/upgrading, re-transfer of hardware, and even destruction of kit that is no longer wanted or needed.

Nations who have bought military kit from the U.S. have had to deal with the restrictive issues over the use of the kit they bought. Even nations who produce their own military kit have had their own exports blocked by the U.S. because of a component (or components) that is on the USML (United States Munitions List, which is monitored by ITAR). Spain, Brazil, Venezuela, Canada, Australia, and Britain are the most recent nations to have to deal with the U.S. over ITAR related issues. It's not just nations but even individual companies have been restricted in their business deals reguarding one or more components that are u.s. origin, take the multinational consortium Eurofighter for example, Eurofighter had to get permission from the U.S. government to sell the Typhoon to Saudi Arabia.

The more I read and hear about countries being held up because these restrictive export controls makes me think that buying the U.S. jets might be more trouble than they're worth. Perhaps we'll be better off with the Dassault Rafale. Just my two cents.

[saturn_656]

Shadow_Flanker wrote:

saturn_656 wrote:

Shadow_Flanker wrote:

With all the negative news about the JSF program, the feds should have a back up plan incase the yanks do decide to scrap the whole thing. Say, have a preliminary list of suitable aircraft on hand, and if the JSF program gets canned by the U.S., then we immediately call up the manufacturers on the list and hold a competition.

A fly-off between the Silent Eagle and the Super Hornet?

Boeing would be happier than a pig in shit.

Silent Eagle and Super Hornet would be a very good choice (i'd pick Silent Eagle myself) if JSF gets the axe, but I'm somewhat skeptical about this country staying with the U.S. makes. Not because of their performance stats, but more from the political and economic side.

The yanks have alot of restrictions when it comes to technology and are very weary about sharing/transfering that tech with other nations, even their allies. ITAR (International Traffic in Arms Regulations) is quite a barrier when it comes to military procurment from foreign nations, not just for buying but also with maintenance/upgrading, re-transfer of hardware, and even destruction of kit that is no longer wanted or needed.

Nations who have bought military kit from the U.S. have had to deal with the restrictive issues over the use of the kit they bought. Even nations who produce their own military kit have had their own exports blocked by the U.S. because of a component (or components) that is on the USML (United States Munitions List, which is monitored by ITAR). Spain, Brazil, Venezuela, Canada, Australia, and Britain are the most recent nations to have to deal with the U.S. over ITAR related issues. It's not just nations but even individual companies have been restricted in their business deals reguarding one or more components that are u.s. origin, take the multinational consortium Eurofighter for example, Eurofighter had to get permission from the U.S. government to sell the Typhoon to Saudi Arabia.

The more I read and hear about countries being held up because these restrictive export controls makes me think that buying the U.S. jets might be more trouble than they're worth. Perhaps we'll be better off with the Dassault Rafale. Just my two cents.

The only way to truly avoid ITAR is to either build the entire plane (subsystems and all) in Canada, or buy Russian.

Most if not all western fighters contain some degree of American technology.

I'm pretty skeptical of the Rafale. Out of all the latest western fighter designs (F-35, F-18E/F, Eurofighter, Gripen, etc.), it is the only one that can't seem to secure a foreign buyer, and the reason for that sure as hell isn't a lack of effort by the French.

[Shadow_Flanker]

To avoid ITAR doesn't neccesssarily mean building/designing entirely in Canada or buying from Joe Kremlin. We can get various components from many different nations. Canada's Halifax Class frigates will be upgraded (Frigate Life Extension) with the emphasis to have no ITAR, or the absolute minimum of U.S. origin hardware as possible. The upgrades will be with parts from Canada, Netherlands, Germany, Israel, and Sweden.

Two main reasons for the lack of foreign sales for the Rafale is the high cost per plane (RafaleC 82.3 million, RafaleM 90.5 million), and until recently the problem with developing the phased array radar system . It has been in competition in countries that have always purchased U.S. makes so a new entry from another nation would be a longshot. France has come very close in Oman, UAE, Kuwait for orders, and is one of the finalists in Brazil (up against the F/A-18 Super Hornet) and India (versus the Eurofighter Typhoon). Besides, the F-35, Super Hornet, Typhoon, and Gripen haven't been widely sold on the international market either, and all four now face increased competition from Russia's newly developed MIG-35 and SU-35.