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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:08 pm
 


Thanos wrote:
The risk to BC is wildly overstated, deliberately too by the pipeline opponents. The federal commitment to spill response and the basics of the construction code are designed to purposely mitigate any leaks. Once again there's no 100% safety guarantee possible, but for fuck's sake it's not like it's some kind of drunken Red Green-level shit-show and the line is being built out of cardboard tubing and duct tape.

The real threat at any shoreside oil terminal isn't in the on-shore piping anyway. It's from whatever ancient rattle-trap tanker registered in some third-world shithole pulls up to the terminal for loading. And that's entirely a federal responsibility to ensure that obsolete tankers or ones with broken loading equipment aren't allowed to dock in Canadian waters. That has nothing at all to do with either Alberta or Kinder-Morgan. But the same "imminent disaster!" scenario can be said too about any of the how-many-per-day ships that pull in to load or unload in Vancouver-area waters. The only option for 100% safety is to ban commercial shipping in BC waters altogether and no one (except the nuttiest of the eco-nuts) ever goes on record to suggest anything draconian like that.


R=UP R=UP


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:21 pm
 


John Ivison: First Nations deserve to be consulted on Trans Mountain — and they have been

It is a grim irony that a Liberal government elected on a promise of renewing relations with First Nations based on “trust, respect and the true spirit of co-operation” is now being accused by some Indigenous chiefs in British Columbia of provoking a new Oka crisis.

Grand Chief Stewart Phillip, president of the Union of B.C. Indian Chiefs, believes Justin Trudeau’s promise to build the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion ignores the inherent right of Indigenous people to free, prior and informed consent for resource projects.

“If the federal government tries to ram through the pipeline, it could mean going back to one of the darkest times in modern Canadian history: the Oka stand-off with the Mohawk Nation,” he wrote this week in an opinion article in the Globe and Mail, invoking the violent conflict that took place in Quebec in 1990 and that still makes federal politicians break out in cold sweats.

Indigenous leaders in B.C. who support the pipeline say the prospect of another Oka is real. “That’s one of my biggest fears,” said Keith Matthew, a former chief of the Simpcw First Nation in the central interior of B.C.

“There are threats and intimidation that mean a lot of Aboriginal leaders are afraid to speak up. It’s not politically correct to say, ‘I support economic development,’” said Ellis Ross, a Liberal MLA in Victoria and a former chief councillor of the Haisla Nation.

Matthew said leaders like Phillip have misled many Indigenous people about the role of pipelines and resource projects.

“He’s full of crap. A lot of elected leaders have a responsibility to look after the welfare of their people. Stewart Phillip has none of those responsibilities. He stands on his soapbox because he doesn’t have to answer to anyone. Quite honestly, he’s hurting a lot of people in rural communities who depend on these major projects,” said Matthew.

Ross also condemned a “vocal minority” who want to block Trans Mountain.

“What really bugs me most of all is that that these leaders opposing the project do not care about individuals suffering in poverty. These leaders are getting all their perks and are leading the opposition to people digging themselves out of poverty,” he said.

Matthew is now a private business-owner but was part of the negotiating team that hammered out a mutual-benefit agreement on behalf of the Simpcw with Kinder Morgan, a process that took 18 months.

Trans Mountain crosses 92 streams as it runs through Simpcw territory, and there were concerns about the impact on the environment, the consequence for the First Nation’s titles and rights, and the financial benefits that might flow to them from the 20-year agreement.

The upshot was a referendum among the Simpcw that yielded 80-per-cent support for the negotiated agreement — free, prior and informed consent, by any measure.

Phillip has called Trans Mountain “a learning moment for Canada,” and, one way or another, it promises to be just that. As Ross put it, if the activists win the day, it will set a precedent. “It won’t stop after that,” he said.

Trudeau seems to be determined that the rule of law will prevail but keeping moderate British Columbians on side is a fine balance.

Ottawa could hold back $4 billion intended to flow to the province in the form of infrastructure payments, mostly for Vancouver’s transit project, but that might prove counterproductive. Invoking the Emergencies Act might also be seen in B.C. as an overreaction.

The latest betting in Ottawa is that the government will call on the Conservative opposition to support risk management legislation that reasserts the federal government’s jurisdictional primacy and provides financing to backstop the expansion.

The sense is that there is insufficient time to negotiate a complex equity deal that would see the federal government itself take a stake in Trans Mountain.

Trudeau will return to Ottawa from Peru this Sunday to meet with B.C. premier John Horgan and Alberta premier Rachel Notley, but the expectations that a deal can be hammered out are lower than a well-digger’s keister.

Horgan is said to be concerned that capitulation on the issue could see some members of his Cabinet defect to the Green Party, and cost him the Green support he needs to prop up his minority government, potentially ending his tenure in the best job he’s ever going to have.


“John is a pro-resource guy who is probably personally in favour of Trans Mountain, but people say he is worried about his coalition with the Greens,” said one federal government official who knows Horgan.

Horgan’s strategy is said to be to delay the project to death — or at least until the courts force him to buckle.

This is perhaps Trudeau’s best hope — that the silent majority of British Columbians recognize the leaders trying to block the Trans Mountain expansion are self-interested, short-sighted and irresponsible.

The proponents of Trans Mountain — corporate and Indigenous – have operated within the rules. If its opponents do not, right-thinking people from coast to coast to coast should register their disapproval and disgust.

http://nationalpost.com/opinion/john-iv ... -have-been


Count me among the disgusted.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:44 pm
 


Thanos wrote:
The risk to BC is wildly overstated, deliberately too by the pipeline opponents. The federal commitment to spill response and the basics of the construction code are designed to purposely mitigate any leaks. Once again there's no 100% safety guarantee possible, but for fuck's sake it's not like it's some kind of drunken Red Green-level shit-show and the line is being built out of cardboard tubing and duct tape.

The real threat at any shoreside oil terminal isn't in the on-shore piping anyway. It's from whatever ancient rattle-trap tanker registered in some third-world shithole pulls up to the terminal for loading. And that's entirely a federal responsibility to ensure that obsolete tankers or ones with broken loading equipment aren't allowed to dock in Canadian waters. That has nothing at all to do with either Alberta or Kinder-Morgan. But the same "imminent disaster!" scenario can be said too about any of the how-many-per-day ships that pull in to load or unload in Vancouver-area waters. The only option for 100% safety is to ban commercial shipping in BC waters altogether and no one (except the nuttiest of the eco-nuts) ever goes on record to suggest anything draconian like that.


Your argument is valid against the Greens.
NDP knows it's only ONE more ship a day and they've lost that argument. The last gasp argument is whether BC has any say on the content (of pipeline, ships. trains and trucks) or that can be overruled by Ottawa. Looks like Quebec is siding with BC on that one.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:39 pm
 


herbie wrote:
Thanos wrote:
The risk to BC is wildly overstated, deliberately too by the pipeline opponents. The federal commitment to spill response and the basics of the construction code are designed to purposely mitigate any leaks. Once again there's no 100% safety guarantee possible, but for fuck's sake it's not like it's some kind of drunken Red Green-level shit-show and the line is being built out of cardboard tubing and duct tape.

The real threat at any shoreside oil terminal isn't in the on-shore piping anyway. It's from whatever ancient rattle-trap tanker registered in some third-world shithole pulls up to the terminal for loading. And that's entirely a federal responsibility to ensure that obsolete tankers or ones with broken loading equipment aren't allowed to dock in Canadian waters. That has nothing at all to do with either Alberta or Kinder-Morgan. But the same "imminent disaster!" scenario can be said too about any of the how-many-per-day ships that pull in to load or unload in Vancouver-area waters. The only option for 100% safety is to ban commercial shipping in BC waters altogether and no one (except the nuttiest of the eco-nuts) ever goes on record to suggest anything draconian like that.


Your argument is valid against the Greens.
NDP knows it's only ONE more ship a day and they've lost that argument. The last gasp argument is whether BC has any say on the content (of pipeline, ships. trains and trucks) or that can be overruled by Ottawa. Looks like Quebec is siding with BC on that one.


It does puzzle me that Horgan is so against KM while being in support of the LNG pipeline to the point of exempting it from some taxes. If one takes a stand against pipelines, best they make sure it includes all pipelines lest they be justly called a hypocrite...or better yet, two-faced.

Horgan would like nothing more than to see this line be built in his heart of hearts, realizing as he does the economic benefits that accompany it. Unfortunately, not having gained universal support from British Columbians in the last election, he finds himself completely in thrall to Weaver and the Greens who are calling the shots on the extension.

Frankly, I could care less what Quebec has to say about this issue. Until they quit bellying up to the trough for all the transfer payments from the Feds liberally provided by Albertans, they can shut up.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:14 pm
 


What steps Trudeau can take to save Trans Mountain as he faces a 'constitutional crisis'

http://www.bnn.ca/what-steps-trudeau-ca ... l-crisis-1.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:10 pm
 


Makes sense for Horgan to support the LNG line because all the royalties from it and the export terminal will stay in BC. Ditto with Site C on what ever out-of-province distribution agreements they make for electrical power sales.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:48 pm
 


Yep. Economic benefits and little environmental risk. Shit even if an LNG tanker blew in the harbour we'd have something to talk about for a couple days not years of muck to clean up.
So gee, there's this big deposit called Montney shale, mostly in BC. Wouldn't some smart politician promote a link to KM so they could say "BC oil can now flow to BC refineries along the new KM for the use of BCers. Royalties and BC refinery jobs!"?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:46 am
 


Trudeau, Morneau presented plan to complete pipeline, B.C. premier says
Quote:
B.C. Premier John Horgan hints his meeting with the prime minister and the premier of Alberta ended with news that the federal government will introduce legislative and financial measures to ensure the pipeline is built despite B.C.'s environmental concerns.

"Despite all of the commonality between the three of us, we continue to disagree on the question of moving dilute bitumen from Alberta to the port of Vancouver," Horgan told reporters after the meeting with Alberta Premier Rachel Notley and Prime Minister Justin Trudeau.

"We had a discussion about options the federal government laid out their plan over the next number of days, I'll leave that to the prime minister and the minister of finance to tell you about."

Horgan would not give details of the prime minister's plan, insisting that he was only given broad strokes in a meeting he called "collegial" that was devoid of threats or intimidation.

Horgan said Trudeau made it clear he would not punish British Columbians in any way and the B.C. premier said he believes the prime minister's pledge.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-horgan-notley-ottawa-1.4620367
_____________________

If the pipeline goes through it could end Horgan's alliance with the Green Party and force an election in BC and this is why political alliances don't work.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:36 am
 


Oh Jeez your lack of any political savvy whatsoever is beyond belief!

If the pipeline is pushed through in spite of Horgan's opposition, he will have met every promise made to the Green Party.
If Horgan backs off because he's tossed some type of goodie, the Green Party can pull support and commit political suicide.
If BC's involved in an election campaign they can speed up work while everyone's distracted. If the Libs win, the project will be completed unopposed and the Greens will lose any influence over anything whatsoever. If the NDP wins, they'll rule it's too far gone to stop and the the Greens will have little influence on anything. The Greens only have to lose ONE seat to be reduced back to squawking in the wilderness.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:50 am
 


Oh Jeez keep melting down with your Frustrated Train-wreck TDS Hypocritical Rants. The BC Liberals will come back into power crushing Dippers like you. [B-o]


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:33 pm
 


So, it looks as though a buy-in to the line is in the works for the Feds. Notley has signaled her province's willingness to buy in to a portion of or the entire line. Now that's putting your money where your mouth is, Rach - good on you.

I listened to the PMs remarks after the meeting and if BC thinks they can still stop the extension they have another think coming. Along with an investment in the line, the PM also mentioned tabling legislation to further their authority in this matter which will put paid to any further attempts by the BC government to obfuscate and delay. There was not a whit of equivocation on the PM's part as he stated several times that the line will be finished. When KM has the assurance that their investments are safe, they will once again commence work. Good work, JT. Well done.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:45 pm
 


Alberta investing in the pipeline sounds like a good idea.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:16 am
 


The Supreme Court of Canada has dismissed an application by the City of Burnaby, B.C., to appeal a lower court ruling involving the city's bylaws and the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion.

"The application for leave to appeal is dismissed with costs to the respondents, the Trans Mountain Pipeline ULC and the Attorney General of Alberta," said the decision posted by the top court this morning.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british- ... -1.4796012

Great win for the YES side. Next win will be to see the BC gov's case tossed too - can hardly wait.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:03 am
 


Did you seriously expect otherwise? And if by fluke BC wins the 'content' case do you not realize that things have gone so far Trudeau will just negate it with an act of Parliament that the Conservatives will fully support? It's a done deal.
I'm wondering here, do you own shares in a pipeline related project?
Will it cross land you own and will profit from expropriation?
Will you or anyone you know even get a job from the project?
Do you think your gasoline price will go down when it's done?

Or like most of us Interior residents just want something, anything to rub in the faces of Lower Mainlanders? :D
I'd like to pick some small town along the route and start a $10 billion GoFundMe page to build a huge refinery there so we really would see serious benefits from the damn thing.


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