[Winnipegger]

Are Canadians capable of talking with sanity? Most voters I talked with are tired of partisan crap! They don't want to hear how bad the other guys is, they want what's good for Canada. But all we hear in the media partisan party bashing. How bad the other party is. Voters hate that, and are tired of that crap. Yes "crap". But on any internet forums such as this, all we hear (read) is the same partisan crap. Party hacks bashing the other guy.

When I was younger I didn't like any of the parties. Conservatives fed cash to their corporate buddies. They liked to talk about reducing the size of government, reducing regulation and getting bureaucratic noses out of our lives, balancing the budget, and reducing taxes. But once they're elected, they do the opposite. This has been happening for as long as I can remember. Joe Clark didn't do much, but he did increase government spending, and increase the deficit and the debt.

This is getting to a major frustration I have, so let me veer off on a tangent for a bit. In the late 1970s and early 1980s, voters were concerned. It didn't matter who was elected, the deficit continued to increase exponentially, and taxes increased. The Rhinoceros Party was formed to bring attention to the fact politicians never did what they promised.

Then there was Brian Mulroney. People thought he would be honest because he wasn't a career politician. And would know how to run a large organization because he had been CEO of a large corporation. In 1984 he ran for party leadership; he cheated, broke every rule he could get away with, bent an rule he couldn't outright break, and won the leadership. Voters did notice, they aren't stupid. But they treated it as an internal party issue, not their problem. When the election came he campaigned on a platform to eliminate the deficit, reduce the debt, and reduce taxes. He would do this by cutting government spending, and reducing the number of individuals hired in the federal civil service. Voters responded by saying "Our saviour has arrived!" And they gave the Mulroney Conservatives the largest majority in Canadian history. Actually, as a proportion of MPs in the House of Commons, a majority that large did happen a couple times before, but it was equal to the previous high, and the last time it happened was in the 1950s. However, the number of MPs in the house had increased, so in terms of numbers of seats it was the largest. Unfortunately for Canadians he proved to be a bigger lier than any other politician. He increased spending, increased the civil service. Voters were concerned the deficit was high when he was elected, $38 billion was the all time high at that time, but he ran it to $42 billion by 1993. And voters were concerned about the debt, our country was heading for bankruptcy, and taxes would have to be increased to fund it. The debt was $150 billion when he was elected in 1984, but $450 billion at the time of the 1993 election. So he literally tripled it!

Then Liberal finance minister Paul Martin turned that around. He eliminated the deficit and reduced the debt. He didn't do this by increasing taxes, he did it by cutting spending. And he cut taxes. He eliminated the federal individual surtax. From 1993 to 2006 he reduced corporate income tax from 28% to 21%, and just before the 2006 election the Liberals passed a law to abolish corporate capital tax. He said he would abolish corporate surtax too, but first had to cut personal income tax further.

Great! Wonderful! This was a party that believed in helping people in need, but at the same time paying the bills, keeping cost down, and reducing taxes. Throughout the 1990s I said if Paul Martin ever became leader of the Liberal Party, I would join. So I did.

Steven Harper's Conservatives have run us back into deficit. According to the Parliamentary Budget Officer as of March 17 2011 the debt equalled its previous all time high. And from election day January 23 2006 to that same report in 2011 the number of individuals hired in the federal civil service had increased 14%.

Back to the point. Despite all this we have partisan hacks who say "Liberal" is this, or "Liberal" is that. Steven Harper's conservatives have muzzled his own MPs. I spoke with one MP who said he was a Progressive Conservative MP before, lost his seat, but got it back with Harper's Conservatives. When he attended his first caucus meeting he expected it would be run the same way, so he told the president of that meeting he had an issue to raise. The president told him he can't. At Conservative Caucus meetings, Steven Harper would make a speech saying "this is what we're doing"; then each minister would say how his/her ministry would implement what Steven Harper just said. That was it, the entire caucus meeting. Caucus members (all Conservative MPs) did not get a chance to say anything.

All this sounds like I'm defending the Liberals. And I guess to an extent I am. I have my own criticisms of the Liberals. Primarily I REALLY don't like those who talk about joining the NDP. I joined the party that reduced spending, balanced the budget, reduced the debt, and reduced taxes. That certainly isn't NDP. Last summer I attended a meeting about "tax fairness". I didn't realize it was a bunch of Dippers. The speaker talked about how great and wonderful it would be to increase personal income tax to 70%! She argued that during World War 2, marginal income tax rate for highest earners was 90%. She didn't want 90%, but did strongly argue for 70%. And she wanted inheritance tax to take everything away, everything your family has accumulated over the generations. I've had NDPers try to tell me how often I have to mow my lawn, what flowers I can or can't plant around my house, they act as if my property is public property. And some Liberals want to merge with that?!?!?!

Ok, I'm sounding partisan too. Even the NDP have some good things going for them. When a voter has a problem, they actually put in effort to fix it. I've had a number of Liberals argue that they shouldn't be bothered to help anyone with their personal problems. Some Liberals do actually help people, they tend to be the ones who get elected. (Duh!) But I find it amazing how many Liberals still haven't learned this lesson. One of the major jobs of any political party is to help voters with their particular personal problems. I had hopes that the Liberals would learn this from the NDP when Bob Ray became interim leader. But no. Instead under his leadership they argued for increasing spending even further than the Harper Conservatives. (Shudder!)

But on this board we have people say things like "Conservatives are acting like Liberals", whenever the Conservatives behave badly. Well, that isn't Liberal. In fact it's part of Liberal policy that MPs have the right to debate issues, not just toe the party line.

I have encountered many Conservative and Liberal politicians who believe only the rich should be involved with politics. They look down their noses at any average working Canadian. I'm not rich, I'm just a computer programmer. And I've struggled to stay employed. I worked for Acklands, then they got a new president who decided to sell off company divisions and outsource the computer department. Then Beaver Lumber. Then Westfair Foods, who owns the SuperStore. But after a series of mergers they had 3 full-size computer departments, they chose to close the one in Winnipeg. I had a few contracts that were over when the job was done. So I know what it's like to live on poggy. I tried to run in 2008, but someone with power seriously screwed me over. I lost my job, and had a legal battle to keep my house. Despite the fact I don't have a mortgage. EI ran out, but I refuse to sit on my but living on welfare. I have a tiny little home based business repairing computers. It barely pays the bills, I can't afford vehicle insurance so my vehicle is parked, but at least it's not welfare. But these Conservative and Liberal politicians act like I'm something they scraped off the bottom of their shoe.

So could we please behave like civilized adults?

[andyt]

Sometimes to pretty partisan axe I think this. I have a politician to you want to be a discussion all intelligent grind to a make contribution like. But we much have an message. And if, you're going to have to sex up your message and get much more to get in.

[Lemmy]

Huh?

[andyt]

Word salad. Can't really talk about politics with sanity. And if he wants to be a pol, he's going to have to sex up his message and get partisan right quick, or he doesn't stand a chance.

[BartSimpson]

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

Are Canadians capable of talking with sanity? Most voters I talked with are tired of partisan crap!

Then why did you post a bunch of Conservative-bashing, partisan crap?

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

Ok, I'm sounding partisan too.

Exactly.

[QBC]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

Are Canadians capable of talking with sanity? Most voters I talked with are tired of partisan crap!

Then why did you post a bunch of Conservative-bashing, partisan crap?

Unlike you eh Bart?......

[andyt]

QBC QBC:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

Are Canadians capable of talking with sanity? Most voters I talked with are tired of partisan crap!

Then why did you post a bunch of Conservative-bashing, partisan crap?

Unlike you eh Bart?......

Bart never posts Conservative-bashing, partisan, crap.

[QBC]

andyt andyt:

QBC QBC:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Then why did you post a bunch of Conservative-bashing, partisan crap?

Unlike you eh Bart?......

Bart never posts Conservative-bashing, .

Corrected that for ya andy....

[bootlegga]

Good Post Winnipegger - welcome back!

[BartSimpson]

QBC QBC:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

Are Canadians capable of talking with sanity? Most voters I talked with are tired of partisan crap!

Then why did you post a bunch of Conservative-bashing, partisan crap?

Unlike you eh Bart?......

Hey, I've never complained and then made myself a hypocrite in the exact same post.



I try to wait for the third post. Got to have my standards, you see.

[Winnipegger]

andyt andyt:

if he wants to be a pol, he's going to have to sex up his message

You want sexy? Here's my main issue.

Treat debt as a mortgage, once gone abolish income tax

I posted this on the local candidate's website during the 2006 election. Part of it says once federal personal income tax is gone, close the personal income tax division of CRA and lay them all off. And if provinces want to keep provincial personal income tax, then they'll have to pay for collecting it. Once I posted that, the CRA made a media announcement that they're talking to provinces about collecting their taxes. And immediately after that Steven Harper himself went on national TV to argue against it. He said the CRA only costs $2 billion per year. Actually according to the budget CRA costs $3 billion, so I assume the $2 billion is for personal income tax. The point is no one else in the Liberal party talked about completely abolishing personal income tax, just me. So that tells me where my problems are coming from.

The Liberal Party disallowed my nomination because of my problems. I had become riding association president, was completely uncontested. They appointed a candidate 1 1/2 weeks after the writ dropped (election campaign began). As soon as the announcement was made that he was candidate, the same bank pulled the same stunt on him. He was forced to sell his business because of that. If the bank had done it to just me, I would have thought it a coincidence. But two candidates for the same riding, the same party, in the same year for the same election? There's no way that's a coincidence.

I've been pushing to pass this as a policy resolution since the 2006 election. I finally got somewhere. A watered-down (drastically watered-down) version passed at the national biennial convention last spring. And party leadership candidates are talking about "bold" policies. Well, here's a really bold one. Is that sexy enough?

[Freakinoldguy]

I love that the poster led with the "Most voters I talked with are tired of partisan crap" statement and then proceeded to shit all over the Conservative while forgetting or glossing over a certain other Party and PM's role in all his bitches.

Given your completely biased post I think it's pretty safe to say. You answered your own question.

I guess the rest of us can't talk about "Canada with Sanity" unless of course, we agree with your views.

BTW are you and Curtman related?

[Winnipegger]

Well, I also complain about slander accused against candidates. And all are considered guilty until proven innocent. Lesley Hughes was accused in 2008. Stéphane Dion pulled her nomination before verifying whether the accusations were true. She didn't know until the media found her campaigning door-to-door. It was too late for the Liberal Party to register another candidate, so they didn't have a candidate in that riding. The accusations were proven false, the accuser published a retraction and apology in the Globe and Mail, but somewhere on a back page. I've only met one person who said he read that. I criticise Liberal leaders for falling for slanderous accusations from other parties or their proxies. This has happened every election since 2004. Liberal leaders have got to learn to stand by their fellow candidates. This has happened before, it will happen again.

Now there's a Conservative senator accused of something. I haven't heard any details about the accusation, just the names of the charges. Because of all past crap, my leaning is to doubt they're true. If I were partisan I would say something like "you deserve it" or "now it's your turn", but I can't do that. Politicians have to learn "innocent until proven guilty."

[martin14]

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

...

You are your own hack.

[ShepherdsDog]

It'd be nice to hear a politician try......better yet hear a Liberal be a Liberal and not a repackaged NDP Lite