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CKA Uber
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:49 am
 


Technically the American colonists really weren't treated all that badly by the British crown - or, more accurately, they weren't treated any worse than any of the other colonies in the empire. And it's not like the Czechs were mass-arresting mobs of Slovaks to line up against a wall and gun down. Separation doesn't require real tyranny or state brutality to stoke it. Repeated small acts of disrespect, mockery, and indifference are more than enough to set it off. In the end there is no requirement to stay in a family if they obviously don't like you. And leaving doesn't have to be the end of the world for anyone involved in the break up.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:53 am
 


Thanos Thanos:
Technically the American colonists really weren't treated all that badly by the British crown


Technically, it wasn't the Crown at all. The Monarchy gave up most of its power ~700 years previous with the Magna Carta.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:57 am
 


Not really. Not when King George III could basically over-ride Parliament altogether, not that Parliament objected too much anyway to the policies the Americans were beginning to find intolerable, in trying to force the colonies to remain. At that point in history crown-state-king were still effectively the same thing.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:03 am
 


I have said it before and it bears repeating. My belief is that Wexit is not so much a question of whether Alberta and Saskatchewan should separate, but whether Canada should even exist. Canada is not no much a state as it is a collection of bickering regions and "nations" that despise each other and--quite frankly--has no reason to continue its miserable existence. Despite the campaign slogan the Liberals used in the recent election, Central Canada is forever trapped in the past and refuses to adapt to the challenges it faces. Hence why actual reform is all but impossible.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:10 am
 


Bullshit.



And *BAM* suddenly we are one big happy country.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:14 am
 


For a fleeting moment before we are back to stabbing each other in the back. Canadians were always obsessed with the superficial since the days of PET.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:14 am
 


If the voters in Central Canada really didn't take Western concerns all that seriously in the last election, as they keep saying, would they even object all that much if we left? I certainly won't be expecting huge crowds of Torontonians or Vancouverites to descend en masse at the Alberta legislature in Edmonton or in downtown Calgary carrying a giant Canadian flag imploring us to "please stay!" the way they did in Montreal in 1995. At this stage Canadian brotherhood is basically just grist for postcards with nothing very sincere about it anymore, if there was ever anything sincere or truly heart-felt about it to begin with.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:24 am
 


Thanos Thanos:
If the voters in Central Canada really didn't take Western concerns all that seriously in the last election, as they keep saying, would they even object all that much if we left? I certainly won't be expecting huge crowds of Torontonians or Vancouverites to descend en masse at the Alberta legislature in Edmonton or in downtown Calgary carrying a giant Canadian flag imploring us to "please stay!" the way they did in Montreal in 1995.


Well, firstly Quebec seemed pretty close to leaving. The rhetoric was very strong, like groups such as 'Alberta Strong' are trying to fan the flames of now.

And it's a 40+ hour drive from Toronto to Edmonton. Toronto to Montreal can be done in a day.

Thanos Thanos:
At this stage Canadian brotherhood is basically just grist for postcards with nothing very sincere about it anymore, if there was ever anything sincere or truly heart-felt about it to begin with.


And yet, most in the East don't feel like that. They think it's all good, nothing new, business as usual. Because, to them it is as they aren't being manipulated the way we are.

What is actually wrong in the West that the East is causing? Our above average rate of employment? Our relatively low debt? Low taxes? Are they causing the price of oil to fall, or is it overproduction in the US from fracking causing that?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:31 am
 


Their blinkered perception of this post-Pierre Trudeau perfection that's supposedly been created no longer interests me, not when it's obviously built on a foundation of falsehoods just like any other national myth anywhere else in the world it. Besides:

1) They can regulate us to death at a whim, even when those excessive regulations are not even slightly necessary as shown by the Alberta energy industry being the cleanest in the entire world just from provincial regulation alone.
2) The only American conservative principle that I agree with anymore is "that which governs least governs best" - Canada is simply too large to be governed centrally by a state that can crush entire regions at any time it feels like. If Canadians felt offended by a goof like Ann Coulter saying "they're lucky we don't roll over in our sleep and crush them" in relation to the Canada/US relationship then why is it wrong to feel the same way about the Canada/Alberta relationship when the exact same condition of superiority v inferiority exists?

Provide me with a reason to believe that staying in Canada is in my own best personal interest. I'm trying hard but I just can't see it on my own anymore. :|


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:59 am
 


Thanos Thanos:
1) They can regulate us to death at a whim, even when those excessive regulations are not even slightly necessary as shown by the Alberta energy industry being the cleanest in the entire world just from provincial regulation alone.


They always could. Nothing changed. Interprovincial trade has always been a barrier too, and separation will not solve it.

And why are you worried about an industry that isn't even top 5 in Alberta? No one cares when more Health Care regulations are implemented, and that is the #1 employer in Alberta. The petroleum energy industry may already be dead, the renewable energy industry is the growth market. None of the bills the Feds passed interfere with us developing that industry. Dead horse, meet stick.

Thanos Thanos:
2) The only American conservative principle that I agree with anymore is "that which governs least governs best" - Canada is simply too large to be governed centrally by a state that can crush entire regions at any time it feels like. If Canadians felt offended by a goof like Ann Coulter saying "they're lucky we don't roll over in our sleep and crush them" in relation to the Canada/US relationship then why is it wrong to feel the same way about the Canada/Alberta relationship when the exact same condition of superiority v inferiority exists?


I too agree with that sentiment, but how is a much smaller "Republic of Western Canuckistan" going to be less squashed by the larger Canada, and the US?

We'll be easy pickings for the Yankee Traders if we don't have the backing of Canada. As soon as NAFTA no longer applies to us, we'll see Oil Tariffs the same as on Softwood, and then comes the mass exportation of Water.

Thanos Thanos:
Provide me with a reason to believe that staying in Canada is in my own best personal interest. I'm trying hard but I just can't see it on my own anymore. :|


National police force. National Armed Forces. A seat the WTO. A seat at the UN. National Health care. Trade agreements with many parties around the world.

All of these things are achievable through an independent Alberta. But how much redundancy will be caused, for things we already have? Try selling Soy, Canola, pork, and beef to China without the WTO.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:46 am
 


Why would you think that being independent of Canada means that a new western state wouldn't join those organizations and agreements? Why are you assuming that independence means xenophobia and hostility? [huh]

Offer the current members of the armed forces citizenship, fighter jets that aren't held together with duct tape & prayers, and more than two-dozen rounds of ammunition per year to shoot off in training and I'd bet most of them would flood to the western state. Ditto too with the RCMP members as well. Don't underestimate how compelling the idea of a fresh start can be, not to mention the appeal of some real freedom as opposed to being nit-picked to death by Big Sister and her servile pajama-boy servants in the left-wing political parties.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:54 am
 


Thanos Thanos:
Why would you think that being independent of Canada means that a new western state wouldn't join those organizations and agreements? Why are you assuming that independence means xenophobia and hostility? [huh]


I imagine they would. But it will take 20 years. How bad will things get in 20 years?

Thanos Thanos:
Offer the current members of the armed forces citizenship, fighter jets that aren't held together with duct tape & prayers, and more than two-dozen rounds of ammunition per year to shoot off in training and I'd bet most of them would flood to the western state. Ditto too with the RCMP members as well. Don't underestimate how compelling the idea of a fresh start can be, not to mention the appeal of some real freedom as opposed to being nit-picked to death by Big Sister and her servile pajama-boy servants in the left-wing political parties.


You are assuming people who volunteered to serve their country will somehow abandon it.

$1:
Where Milne and Mohamed are scared at the conversations around Wexit, Eric Weiss, a former member of the Canadian military, living in Red Deer, Alta., says he is embarrassed.

“I served in the Canadian Armed Forces and I’m proud to be Canadian,” he said.

Although he said he believes the Wexit movement will be short lived and fizzle out, he still plans on leaving the province, a decision influenced by other factors as well.

“I don’t like the direction that Alberta is going down in general. I don’t like what’s going on with the current government,” he said.

Weiss voiced concerns over cuts to social services and the changes to policies around Gay Straight Allainces — student-run clubs that work to create welcoming and safe spaces for LGBTQ students. The United Conservative government overturned the law that forbade teachers from informing parents about their child joining a GSA.

“This province is more obsessed with pipelines than human rights, and I am sick of it.”


‘Are you a Canadian first?’ Wexit talk has some Albertans feeling hurt — others thinking of leaving


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:02 pm
 


I'm not sure why you direct things about the stupidity & lies of Jason Kenney, or the antics of the social conservative half-wits in the UCP, at me. I've made it clear that I voted quite proudly for Rachel Notley twice and, over the years here at CKA, have shown zero-tolerance for the bullshit that comes from the bible-thumpers. In fact I utterly detest them and have for most of my life. What I'm talking about in these threads is the greater meta of an independent state in western Canada. And that IMO the Canadian system has failed and is now something that needs to be left behind. That's all. I endorse none of the current political parties or ideological movements, and I never will. At this stage I'd rather be ruled by an angry computer than by any two-legged moron anywhere. That's how much I think most people absolutely suck these days.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:10 pm
 


I am not directing anything at you. I was simply quoting a veteran's views that I read earlier.

He is of the opinion he'd rather leave Alberta than live under Kenney. And from the talk around the Legion this weekend, he is far from the only one.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:15 pm
 


I respect that opinion. When push comes to shove though I can't let someone else's sentimentality or misplaced nostalgia affect my decision. Not when so many things have gone wrong and there are so few offering any ideas or ways to make things better. Second-class status based on something as ridiculous as geographic location is absolutely unacceptable, especially when it's the "lessers" out in the hinterland that are providing the funds for those in the "more important" areas to live their lifestyle.


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