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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 5:13 pm
 


Maxime Bernier warns alienated Albertans that threatening separation actually left Quebec worse off

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RED DEER, ALTA. — Maxime Bernier warned on Saturday that Alberta should not follow the example of Quebec in attempting to use separation as a threat to wrest more powers and money from the federal government. The strategy, he argued, has only led to more fractiousness and unhappiness in his home province of Quebec.

In a speech delivered in Red Deer, Alta. at a “Freedom Talk” conference about meeting the challenge of Alberta separatism, the leader of the People’s Party of Canada and former Conservative leadership contender told Albertans their first choice should always be to “fix Canada.”

“You will likely find yourself in a very negative political dynamic. One based on failed attempts to blackmail Ottawa, internal divisions, and resentment against the rest of the country,” Bernier said. “Just like in Quebec.”

The PPC leader — who lost his seat in Parliament in the October federal election — delivered a lunchtime address on the problems of Confederation and what is to be done about them. The problem, he believes, is one of distorted federalism, caused by overlarge government.

“It creates tensions and even more divisions,” Bernier declared.

Saturday’s speech was something of a return to form for Bernier, who broke away from the Conservatives last year, in that it was a paean to small government and libertarian identity, the same ideals he has said he thinks the Tories have abandoned.
...
On Saturday, Bernier said the rise of separatism as a phenomenon, in both Quebec and the West, can be linked directly to the expansion of the federal government, which intervened in provincial affairs and has favoured some regions over others.

He spoke at the same hotel in Red Deer where, a week before, Alberta Premier Jason Kenney had announced his plan to seek a better deal for Alberta in Confederation. Organizers estimated nearly 400 people were on hand for Bernier’s speech.

Bernier argued western separation, at least as a tactic to squeeze more benefits from Ottawa, is a “weak threat.”

“And if separatism failed to achieve much that was beneficial in Quebec despite a more credible threat, imagine what it will accomplish here,” he said.

Rather, what Alberta and other provinces should push for is more provincial autonomy — a less centralized federation with a smaller national government. He said that, in retrospect, the approach of Quebec nationalists has proven to be a mistake.

“Quebecers who want more autonomy for Quebec should have allied with (other provinces) instead of making unrealistic demands on Ottawa and the rest of the country,” Bernier said.

In so doing, Bernier argued, there cannot be another western protest party like the old Reform party, which failed to make inroads with voters from Quebec and ultimately ended up subsumed by an establishment party, the Conservatives, under Stephen Harper.

“What we need to solve our unity problems and make our federation work better is a good manager of a smaller, much less intrusive and interventionist government,” Bernier said.

On that point, he took the opportunity to take a shot at Andrew Scheer, the Conservative leader, for failing to stick to more conservative principles.

“Scheer’s only program was to buy votes,” he said.

And, he said, small-c conservatives must reject the calls after losing the last election to be even less conservative, as if to emulate the Liberals. If they do that, Bernier warned, “you’re screwed.”

“We must stop compromising. We must keep defending our ideas. Even if it means we’re not mainstream enough in today’s political culture to form a government.”

https://beta.canada.com/news/canada/maxime-bernier-warns-disgruntled-albertans-that-threatening-separation-actually-left-quebec-worse-off/wcm/7f0f3633-ec41-4f73-b42f-3b5ded1c3d64/amp/


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:07 pm
 


Methinks Bernier has lost his grasp on reality. Probably because he's been devastated by the election results.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:09 am
 


PluggyRug wrote:
Methinks Bernier has lost his grasp on reality. Probably because he's been devastated by the election results.


No, if you look at Quebec's history, all the separation talk has been a rolling economic
disaster for 50 years now.

But the differences between Quebec of the 70's and Alberta now are so vast,
it's completely not relevant.

Of course Bernier doesn't want Alberta to split; he's looking at them tasty 34 seats. :)


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:51 am
 


The Waaaaaaaaxit people won't listen.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:49 am
 


Martin15 wrote:
No, if you look at Quebec's history, all the separation talk has been a rolling economic
disaster for 50 years now.


As the recipients of almost $500 billion in equalization since the late 1960's it could be argued though that threatening separation has been a massive financial windfall for Quebec. For a jurisdiction that's complained incessantly about how badly they've been treated by confederation when it comes to getting money with no strings attached sent their way it's sort of obvious that they're the biggest winners under the traditional Canadian system of "pay them to behave themselves".


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:54 am
 


DrCaleb wrote:
The Waaaaaaaaxit people won't listen.


Actually, if the fuckheads in Ottawa would listen then this issue would not exist in the first place.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:57 am
 


BartSimpson wrote:
DrCaleb wrote:
The Waaaaaaaaxit people won't listen.


Actually, if the fuckheads in Ottawa would listen then this issue would not exist in the first place.


The fuckheads in Ottawa do listen. But only to their bosses in the Toronto-to-Montreal corridor and their offshoot colony of trendy hipsters in Vancouver. Everyone else in this country can quite literally go fuck themselves when it comes to this country's basic operating system.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:00 am
 


BartSimpson wrote:
DrCaleb wrote:
The Waaaaaaaaxit people won't listen.


Actually, if the fuckheads in Ottawa would listen then this issue would not exist in the first place.


We are in a representative democracy. The West does not have the a larger population than the East, therefore the East calls the shots.

Threatening to leave like the whiny Bloc Quebecois doesn't change that. Leaving Confederation in fact will make dealing with Canada that much harder.

Assuming the First Nations want to leave.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:26 am
 


DrCaleb wrote:

We are in a representative democracy. The West does not have the a larger population than the East, therefore the East calls the shots.

Threatening to leave like the whiny Bloc Quebecois doesn't change that. Leaving Confederation in fact will make dealing with Canada that much harder.

Assuming the First Nations want to leave.


And here you see the wisdom of the electoral college system that prevents a tyranny of the majority.

Also: In a sovereignty vote the only votes that matter will be in Alberta and maybe Sask. The East won't matter fuck all.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:30 am
 


DrCaleb wrote:
Assuming the First Nations want to leave.


The FN will get to vote like anyone else and if Alberta/Sask votes (say) 65% to leave then if the FN oppose the action they'll have to pound sand. It simply won't be Ottawa's decision to stop sovereignty...especially if Alberta/Sask apply for and receive US statehood.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:30 am
 


And in the end the options remain the same:

1) sit back, take all their shit from them, and keep your mouth shut
2) leave

This is what kills countries, when even discussing something as tame as a triple-e senate was becomes anathema to the ruling class.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:33 am
 


And the ruling classes who do such things are always at a loss when the tide not only turns against them but crushes them.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:38 am
 


BartSimpson wrote:
And the ruling classes who do such things are always at a loss when the tide not only turns against them but crushes them.


Serves them right too. No truce with kings, never.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:42 am
 


BartSimpson wrote:
And here you see the wisdom of the electoral college system that prevents a tyranny of the majority.


The "Wisdom" of winning without the popular vote. ;)

BartSimpson wrote:
Also: In a sovereignty vote the only votes that matter will be in Alberta and maybe Sask. The East won't matter fuck all.


Yes, I know that. That's why I have always said that the Bloc are whiny bitches, who hate Canada but love getting their fat MP cheques. It's only the PQ, the Provincial Party, who can vote to leave.

And why the Whaaaaaxetiers are registering Provincial parties in all 4 Western provinces.

BartSimpson wrote:
The FN will get to vote like anyone else and if Alberta/Sask votes (say) 65% to leave then if the FN oppose the action they'll have to pound sand. It simply won't be Ottawa's decision to stop sovereignty...especially if Alberta/Sask apply for and receive US statehood.


Reserves are Federal Territory, Provinces have no say over them. Also, BC is something like 110% unceded FN territory, so even if they voted to leave the FNs can say "Hold on a sec..."


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:42 am
 


BartSimpson wrote:
And the ruling classes who do such things are always at a loss when the tide not only turns against them but crushes them.


A couple hundred rednecks in a school gym is hardly a 'crushing tide'.


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