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CKA Uber
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:49 pm
 


MeganC wrote:
Why is it a civil right to force other people to do what you want?


Who is being forced? The ones who want to outlaw gay marriage are doing the forcing.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 5:16 am
 


JaredMilne wrote:
Similarly, that's what happens with the looney toons at places like Brown University and their attacks on free speech making everyone else who could be associated with them look bad too. That's why you have liberal humanities professors writing about how their own students scare them.

I am not denouncing Republican supporters in general for harassing liberals in advance, I'm denouncing the psychos who feel like Trump's election gives them the go-ahead to indulge their hatred. As has been pointed out, plenty of people had perfectly good reasons to vote for Trump, particularly given the increasingly sclerotic neoliberal "free trade" economic model that so many of our business and political elites remain pigheadedly in love with.

And as I noted in point 2), the supporters of immigration and open borders have a lot of their own explaining and thinking to do. I didn't post it in the original post, since that had to do more specifically with Canada, but I think that progressives themselves could do a hell of a lot better at criticizing the crazies in their midst.

It's one thing to advocate for safe spaces for certain minorities, and to address specific triggering issues (which the media have been doing for years with content warnings anyway), but it's quite another to rip up American flags on Veterans' Day (as some of the Brown loons did last week), to harass unpopular speakers and the people who want to listen to them, or to whine that your studies are getting in the way of your social activism (no joke, this is another Brown loon-that place seems to be going over the edge).

I've seen plenty of conservatives, including here at CKA, rip on Ezra Levant for being a pompous asshat who makes Canadian conservatism look bad. I only wish I saw more of that in general-being willing to call out people in your own "camp" for idiocy or assholishness, even as you cheer on the success of politicians, parties and causes you support. Maybe that type of criticism, judiciously applied, could assure people who don't disagree with you of your good faith, which is one of the things I was originally trying to get at.


Progressives have fouled their own nest in recent years. And Trump is one of the results of that. Why is that, you ask?

1. The obsession with diversity for its own sake, and preoccupation with identity politics. Progressives focus more energy these days on relatively minuscule non-binary gender minorities than on general questions of economic justice, which used to be their bread and butter. And when they do get around to economic questions, it's all about "what evil industries can we shut down?" or promoting the arts rather than practical ideas for making a more just society.

2. They've failed to reign in the millenials SJWs among them, with their trigger warnings and safe spaces and checking privilege. This new generation of PC thugs has taken the academia-driven post-modernist social activism of the 90's and added their own special flavour of social media fuelled authoritarianism and narcissism.

3. Like the boy who cried wolf, progressives have been calling pretty much everyone to the right of Joe Clark a "fascist" for decades now. So much so that now that someone who might genuine fit the bill has shown up, they find their warnings have fallen on deaf ears. They've cheapened a word that used to precisely describe one of the great evils of the 20th Century by turning it into a generic slur.

Enjoy your Trump, progressives.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 7:44 am
 


Individualist wrote:


Progressives have fouled their own nest in recent years. And Trump is one of the results of that. Why is that, you ask?

1. The obsession with diversity for its own sake, and preoccupation with identity politics. Progressives focus more energy these days on relatively minuscule non-binary gender minorities than on general questions of economic justice, which used to be their bread and butter. And when they do get around to economic questions, it's all about "what evil industries can we shut down?" or promoting the arts rather than practical ideas for making a more just society.


I would say it's the right -specifically the US right- obsessed with identity politics. Whitte nationalism is identity politics. Anti--gay, anti-immigrant,anti-Muslim etc. and trying to portray those people as some evil "other" and passing laws against them is all identity politics. Standing up to those ideas is not identity politics, the same way that defending yourself from an attacker is not agresssion.

The observation that "progressives" focus less on economic justice issues may have been true in the Chretien-Clinton era -if you can even call that policy or those people progressive - but the Trudeau-Wynne Liberals are definitely not of that stripe and the the true left wing base - found in NDP, labour unions, academia, etc certainly never abandoned those ideals.

I don't know where you get that more effort is spent on "promoting the arts" than on other things, I suspect you just say that for dramatic effect. Yes, industries that are evil should be shut down. Do you like evil?

Quote:
2. They've failed to reign in the millenials SJWs among them, with their trigger warnings and safe spaces and checking privilege. This new generation of PC thugs has taken the academia-driven post-modernist social activism of the 90's and added their own special flavour of social media fuelled authoritarianism and narcissism.


What is it you envision when you say "reign in"? Do you want some kind of draconian criminal law passed so that a campus SJW gets thrown in jail when they ask for a "trigger warning"? Their antics are annoying but inconsequential and don't require outside intervention. Let the students and universities figure out their own way. Student radicalism is little more than a right of passage followed by some, a passing fad that fades away once these people enter the real world. Remember, the heartless Wall Street Reagan-loving yuppies of the 80's and 90s were the leftist radical hippies of the 60s and 70s.

Quote:
3. Like the boy who cried wolf, progressives have been calling pretty much everyone to the right of Joe Clark a "fascist" for decades now. So much so that now that someone who might genuine fit the bill has shown up, they find their warnings have fallen on deaf ears. They've cheapened a word that used to precisely describe one of the great evils of the 20th Century by turning it into a generic slur.
. The only other time mainstream leftists called conservatives fascists with any regularity or seriousness was that Bush-Cheney neocons given that at the time, their repugnant policies and methods had never been seen before. But now that we've had over a decade of it, it's become normalized and spawned an even more repugnant beast that we never thought possible in a developed democracy so in hindsight maybe you're right, we shot our load on Bush-Cheney so have no ammo left for the true monster.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 9:17 am
 


Individualist wrote:
JaredMilne wrote:

Enjoy your Trump, progressives.


As a wise American once told me, the latest president is always in some part the result of a protest against the former president.

Yes, the progressives are responsible for this, maybe not entirely but certainly in part. It was an election where people said, "I'm going to hold my nose and vote because I'm sick of this".

"This", has been the direction of America. People would rather roll the dice on the unknown than double down on what they know and despise. The patriotic, "can-do" attitude of Americans has been replaced with Safe Spaces and Americans being told they should be ashamed of themselves for being successful or standing up for principle. Individualism slowly being replaced by something quite foreign to Americans.

Indeed, we have the result. If these four years don't go well we are going to see socialism on steroids in America, so we had all better hope he and the broader Republicans are successful. I have faith in many of these people after having followed this election closely the last 1.5 years, it's just a matter of action.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 10:52 am
 


BeaverFever wrote:
I would say it's the right -specifically the US right- obsessed with identity politics. Whitte nationalism is identity politics. Anti--gay, anti-immigrant,anti-Muslim etc. and trying to portray those people as some evil "other" and passing laws against them is all identity politics.


Different sides of the same coin, yes. But silencing dissent and insulting vast swaths of people has never been a particularly effective strategy for promoting tolerance. Straight white males who have suffered under poor economic conditions don't like being lectured about how privileged they are, even if it is technically the truth. And progressives' championing (and yes it has been that) of Muslims and Islam sends the message to Christians who have had their religious expression mocked and denigrated by these same people that the so-called secular left doesn't have a problem with religion in general - just with theirs. Progressives tend to conflate religion with culture and ethnicity, and thus can't bring themselves to critique a "religion of colour".

Quote:
I don't know where you get that more effort is spent on "promoting the arts" than on other things, I suspect you just say that for dramatic effect. Yes, industries that are evil should be shut down. Do you like evil?


Aside from green energy, it's the only economic sector they seem to like.

Quote:
What is it you envision when you say "reign in"? Do you want some kind of draconian criminal law passed so that a campus SJW gets thrown in jail when they ask for a "trigger warning"? Their antics are annoying but inconsequential and don't require outside intervention. Let the students and universities figure out their own way. Student radicalism is little more than a right of passage followed by some, a passing fad that fades away once these people enter the real world. Remember, the heartless Wall Street Reagan-loving yuppies of the 80's and 90s were the leftist radical hippies of the 60s and 70s.


The problem is that the kiddies aren't content to just play in their academic sandbox. They're out in the real world trying to get people fired or arrested for having opinions they don't like.

When you give people license to hate and harass members of groups who are "advantaged" in some way relative to themselves, you're implicitly giving that other group permission to assert a group identity of their own and hate you back. MLKs speech about judging people by the content of their character rather than their skin colour would be met with derision by progressives if spoken for the first time today. No brotherhood of man for today's left. Now it's all about indulging revenge fantasies and getting payback.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 12:42 pm
 


So you're saying that when we go shopping and I notice the Costco guy creeping around and blatantly following our friend around the store, it's not because she's 'a goddam Indian'?
Or if I approached the guy and told him she's got her own card and her husband's trucking outfit buys about 200X what we do there, I'm more of a statistical risk - that would be wrong?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 12:48 pm
 


"The Left" doesn't have to collectively apologize for every twitter troll or campus student group that espouses left wing values or whom YOU THINK has left wing values. The Liberal Party doesn't have to answer for the shrieks of some 19yr old on a UBC campus and the entire "progressive" movement isn't suddenly redefined because of those shrieks. On what grounds have these people been "given license"? What do you want to see, Trudeau to open fire on campus SJWs, Kent State style?


I don't know where you get that they're "championing" Islam. Preventing righties from banning or persecuting a religion isn't the same as promoting that religion.

Your "shutting down industry" comments are just more empty hot air. No industries have been "shut down."

Your post is just the usual right wing chickenhawk tactic where righties spew hateful invective day and night about liberals and the various evil minority groups out to destroy our way of life and if anyone says so much as a peep in reply you scream that you're "being silenced" and the victim of identity politics.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 6:53 pm
 


BeaverFever wrote:
Your post is just the usual right wing chickenhawk tactic where righties spew hateful invective day and night about liberals and the various evil minority groups out to destroy our way of life and if anyone says so much as a peep in reply you scream that you're "being silenced" and the victim of identity politics.


ROTFL


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 10:21 pm
 


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:36 am
 


Canadian_Mind wrote:
MeganC wrote:
Why is it a civil right to force other people to do what you want?


Because we wouldn't function as a left-wing socialist society otherwise.


FTFY.

Maybe YOUR society can't function without forcing other people to play along with your political philosophies but that notion is anathema to us and thus Trump beat Hildecunt.

Also, your comment is a fine illustration of why we hold our right to keep and bear arms so dear: because it's a tad difficult to force someone else to do something they don't want to do after they blow your brains clean out of your head.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:52 am
 


Im what way is allowing gay people to marry forcing you to do anything?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 10:37 am
 


BeaverFever wrote:
Im what way is allowing gay people to marry forcing you to do anything?


Are they forcing people to bake them cakes, take pictures of their weddings, and perform other services for them?

Yes, they are.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 10:40 am
 


<


Last edited by Lemmy on Mon May 01, 2017 11:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 10:44 am
 


Lemmy wrote:
Probably better if they'd just jizzed in the cake batter and decorated it as asked.


You do realize that some of the deviants would actually pay extra for such a cake, right?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:55 pm
 


BartSimpson wrote:
BeaverFever wrote:
Im what way is allowing gay people to marry forcing you to do anything?


Are they forcing people to bake them cakes, take pictures of their weddings, and perform other services for them?

Yes, they are.

Sorry, but straight couples are forcing them to bake cakes, take pictures of their weddings, and perform other services for them too.


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