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CKA Uber
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:07 pm
 


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It is early November and in the streets of Toronto, men and women are pinning bright red poppies onto their dark winter coats. They do this in remembrance; they remember the men and women who gave their lives in the two great orgies of violence that defined the twentieth century in order to build a saner and a better world. That world, which the survivors managed to build, came to a sudden end last night. With the election of Donald Trump, the last of the major Western democracies holding out against the tidal onslaught of xenophobia has fallen. Well, not quite the last. There is Canada.

In Europe the power of the far right has been growing steadily and ferociously for decades. The far right may not even be the correct term for the force that is coming to dominate what was formerly called the West. It combines the promise of social cohesion through the welfare state with a racially defined ethnic identity. This power is on the march everywhere and naturally tends towards autocracy. It's not just Western. It is producing Vladimir Putins across the globe, in Turkey and in the Philippines.

Canada is most open to the world at the exact moment the world has closed.

Even those countries in which the new forms of socialistic nationalism have not yet triumphed have been profoundly altered by its rise. A recent article in the Guardian reported that 32 percent of men and women in gay marriages in France support the Front National. With Brexit and the triumph of Trump, the momentum has shifted to the point where the ethnic nationalists are no longer insurgents; they are the power. nato will probably be significantly diminished as will the European Union and nafta. The very notion of a rules-based international order, rather than might is right, may well be a thing of the past.

Recently I published an essay with OpenCanada.org on the subject of "Canadian Exceptionalism." In it I argued that, with the rise of Trudeau and the failure of race-baiting politics of the Conservative Party in the 2015 election, Canada had found a new and distinct political identity, one with a unique position in the international order. We are the last cheerful nation. Events have accelerated to the point where the Canadian exceptionalism defined in that essay is probably not extreme enough. How much longer can we consider ourselves an outlier within the international order, when the international order itself is dissolving?

We are increasingly alone. This loneliness is going to define us in the coming months and years, possibly forever. We are the last country on earth to believe in multiculturalism. We are one of the last countries on earth to believe in the freedom of trade. The irony of our situation is obvious: We are most open to the world at the exact moment the world has closed.

As horrific as this turn of events in the world at large is—and we are not that far from being able to imagine ethnic cleansing as a political program in advanced economies—Canada's loneliness puts us in a position unique in our history. For the first time, we find ourselves not as a reflection of another power. Our politics is not a derivation of Westminster or Washington anymore. Our politics is specific to us, not a derivation from a distant metropolis.

That is exactly why we must take a very careful and close examination of ourselves and our vision for our country, and immediately. Sunny ways are not enough. Progressives who insist that "Canada has its problems too" and "we shouldn't judge others because we're just as bad," are in a sense perfectly correct. Our multicultural ideal often fails. Our process of truth and reconciliation with indigenous peoples is torturously slow and probably will remain so for the foreseeable future. But we can no longer look to progressive movements in England or Europe or the United States for guidance. Our problems are just not the same as the problems found elsewhere.

Needless to say the threat of a Donald Trump or Brexit arising in Canada is very real. Canadians, despite their smugness, are not better people than the people of the United States or the United Kingdom. Kellie Leitch, leadership candidate for the Conservative Party, immediately sent a note to her colleagues after Trump's victory:

“Tonight, our American cousins threw out the elites and elected Donald Trump as their next president.

It's an exciting message and one that we need delivered in Canada as well.
It's the message I'm bringing with my campaign to be the next Prime Minister of Canada.
It's why I'm the only candidate for the leadership of the Conservative Party of Canada who is standing up for Canadian values.”

This alone demonstrates that forces within the Conservative Party wish to nurture xenophobia and the language of national values for political gain. It is unclear how they would do so, given the nature of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. It is also unclear if the strategy would work, since the Islamophobia play failed during the last campaign and during Quebec's last provincial election, as well. Nonetheless the future of Canada right now is being fought in the Conservative leadership race. Will half of our politics be defined by the same trends that are reshaping the rest of the world, or will the Conservatives go back to their traditional politics of reining in Liberal spending and arrogance?

Canada's relative position of strength—if that's how you can describe not being overwhelmed by loathing for others—should not render us complacent. Quite the opposite. Right now, while we are not in the darkness, we must make multiculturalism work. We must make it work better and we must make it work for everyone. We must make it work while bringing ourselves, or at least attempting to bring ourselves, into a state of reconciliation with the first peoples of this country. It is our duty to the world. We need to show, through example, that hatred is not the only possibility in a world filled with others. That will mark us more brightly than any poppy.


http://thewalrus.ca/canada-in-the-age-of-donald-trump/

It smacks of east coast elitism a bit, but is an interesting read nonetheless.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:35 am
 


There were some good points in it. However, they were buried in too much bullshit to be of any use.

Basically, there is too much bias, there are too many claims without supporting statements, and the writer points out problems without offering any solutions. I wrote better articles in high school.

But, speaking to the problems he pointed out, the solution is pretty simple; Canada needs to learn to stand on it's own two feet, rather than trying to rely on larger nations to prop us up. Either that, or we begin redeveloping much closer ties with our CANZUK brethren and foster freedom of movement, free trade, and mutual defence amongst our 4 Countries while the rest of the world goes down this supposedly manic nationalist path it is troddling down. That would at least serve to make us a slightly bigger fish in these increasingly hostile seas of international politics.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:06 am
 


UK not going down the nationalist path? How about Australia?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:31 am
 


andyt wrote:
UK not going down the nationalist path? How about Australia?


UK is going to go nationalist and the Brexit vote was the first victory for the UK nationalists.

The Aussies have been going there for a while, now. The thing that has tipped them over has been the steady drip drip drip of Islamic terror and intimidation and the nation's first step to confronting that menace is to have stopped allowing the fuckers to enter Australia. The next step will be deporting the ones who got in back to whence they came.

As to Canada? You folks are just one major terror attack away from going further into authoritarian territory than we are. You people are deeply enamored of security-through-government-power and turning from what has become a soft authoritarian leftish state to a strong authoritarian nationalist and leftish state won't be too hard for most Canadians to embrace.

And then as soon as the threat is gone you people can be counted on to oust the government that did the dirty work for you and you'll comfort your collective conscience by denouncing the ethnic cleansers as distasteful all while being very careful not to allow the deported to return to Canada.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:09 am
 


Any article that whines about Islamophobia without mentioning the reasons why the phobia grew in the first place is being just too cute. Normally they call us "reactionaries" like it's some kind of an insult. Much like "racist" now it means nothing anymore. "Reactionary racist"? Yeah, whatever, the epithets don't bother anyone anymore and we're going to do what we can to stop you clowns from selling what's left of our heritage and civilization down the river.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:23 am
 


Thanos wrote:
Any article that whines about Islamophobia without mentioning the reasons why the phobia grew in the first place is being just too cute. Normally they call us "reactionaries" like it's some kind of an insult. Much like "racist" now it means nothing anymore. "Reactionary racist"? Yeah, whatever, the epithets don't bother anyone anymore and we're going to do what we can to stop you clowns from selling what's left of our heritage and civilization down the river.


One of the things I picked up during this election cycle:


Being offended doesn't work anymore.


Meaning that name calling like 'racist' has been overused and it's lost both its meaning and its impact on those who get smeared with the epithet.

Myself I say that 'racist' has become an epithet because it's how liberals call white people 'niggers'.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:34 am
 


If they hadn't spent so much time and energy over the previous forty years calling the mostly-moderate conservatives of a now bygone era "racists" whenever they felt like it then they wouldn't be facing this moment right now. If a steelier, much colder-eyed, and brutal opponent is now on the field against them then it's something they completely deserve to have happen.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:45 am
 


Canadian_Mind wrote:
Basically, there is too much bias, there are too many claims without supporting statements, and the writer points out problems without offering any solutions. I wrote better articles in high school.



I wrote better in kindergarten. :lol:

Another hysteric chicken little aren't we so much better than the Americans.
Let's flood our country with 3-4 million illegals, and have an 8 year recession.
Like Europe and the USA have done.

Then see what kind of mood people are in.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 11:06 am
 


martin14 wrote:
Canadian_Mind wrote:
Basically, there is too much bias, there are too many claims without supporting statements, and the writer points out problems without offering any solutions. I wrote better articles in high school.



I wrote better in kindergarten. :lol:

Another hysteric chicken little aren't we so much better than the Americans.
Let's flood our country with 3-4 million illegals, and have an 8 year recession.
Like Europe and the USA have done.

Then see what kind of mood people are in.


Indeed.

I'm a big proponent of free trade and focused immigration, but everything has it's limits.

I had no understanding of what anger and challenges Americans were facing until I listened. First I thrust my opinions and realized they had concerns I had no idea even existed. When I first heard there were 11 million ILLEGAL immigrants, it hit home, I was naive and ignorant to their circumstance. That is a massive number of unknown citizens in your border. My arguments didn't hold much water with their reality and I had to accept this fact.

There must be a way to citizenship and/or improved status for some of these people, but it's a catch 22. Do you take an illegal immigrant, give them fast tracked status while honest immigrants have applied through proper channels and have been waiting years? It's not fair. At the same time; especially for "anchor babies", you surely cannot take someone who has never called anything but America home and throw them back to a country they don't even know.

The issue here was decades of politicians kicking the ball down the field, passing the problem to the next administration. Well, it appears to some degree that administration is here. I think Trump is right to focus primarily on criminals first, it is the easiest for him to justify and by law this is an acceptable response. What follows after will be interesting, I hope that at least for some there will be a path to citizenship, even if it puts them far back down the line.

First, it is about defending the border. The 150 Federal Agents that Obama sent to Texas to defend the border has quietly been overlooked by many. Who knows? Maybe it is Obama giving something back early to Trump for his willingness to accept two key tenets of Obamacare in any altered healthcare solution.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 11:52 am
 


My take on it:

1) Supporters of screening for values, and maintaining traditional values, need to do a better job explaining what specifically those values are they want to maintain. It used to be that segregation in the U.S. and the forced "civilization" of Indigenous people through residential schools were traditional values.

2) Supporters of immigration and new arrivals need to do a better job explaining how most immigrants already adopt established aspects of our culture, and our languages, etc. You just don't usually hear them speaking up the way people who want Tagalog or Spanish to be given the same status as English and French do.

3) Finally, supporters of Trump and his ideas for 'making America great again' need to explain how they will protect ethnic and sexual minorities from being harassed, threatened and attacked by bigots who feel empowered by Trump's election. After all, the Constitutions of both Canada and the U.S. extend rights and freedoms to those people, too.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 12:49 pm
 


JaredMilne wrote:
3) Finally, supporters of Trump and his ideas for 'making America great again' need to explain how they will protect ethnic and sexual minorities from being harassed, threatened and attacked by bigots who feel empowered by Trump's election. After all, the Constitutions of both Canada and the U.S. extend rights and freedoms to those people, too.


They'll still have the same rights as everyone else but they may find it difficult to push their views and values on everyone else as they've become accustomed to doing in recent years.

Trying to force religious people to approve of gay marriage and to endorse it with their labor will likely be very difficult by this time next year.

Forcing conservative students & faculty in the colleges to self-censor or else face sanction will likely be very difficult by this time next year.

Liberals who like to take away people's gun rights will find that task much more difficult by this time next year.

Pedophiles and other sexual deviants who want to use the bathroom of their choice instead of the bathroom appropriate to their physical characteristics will find that to be difficult, too.

And the assumption that anyone not getting in line with liberal Democrat views on these topics is why Trump won the election in the first place. To denounce us in advance for harassing, threatening, and attacking liberals isn't going to help your cause. To the contrary, to me it demonstrates the urgency with which civil rights and Constitutional rule needs to be restored in the USA.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:49 pm
 


BartSimpson wrote:

They'll still have the same rights as everyone else but they may find it difficult to push their views and values on everyone else as they've become accustomed to doing in recent years.

...

And the assumption that anyone not getting in line with liberal Democrat views on these topics is why Trump won the election in the first place. To denounce us in advance for harassing, threatening, and attacking liberals isn't going to help your cause. To the contrary, to me it demonstrates the urgency with which civil rights and Constitutional rule needs to be restored in the USA.


See, this response illustrates a subtle, and more insidious, problem than many of us realize. It has deep roots in Canada, but it also has roots in the U.S. now.

Unfortunately, the likes of David Duke and his supporters in the KKK are openly talking about how they feel empowered by Trump's election. They're more typically associated, rightly or wrongly, with conservatism. That leads to people like Bart, who would not do these things, getting potentially tarred with them by association.

Similarly, that's what happens with the looney toons at places like Brown University and their attacks on free speech making everyone else who could be associated with them look bad too. That's why you have liberal humanities professors writing about how their own students scare them.

I am not denouncing Republican supporters in general for harassing liberals in advance, I'm denouncing the psychos who feel like Trump's election gives them the go-ahead to indulge their hatred. As has been pointed out, plenty of people had perfectly good reasons to vote for Trump, particularly given the increasingly sclerotic neoliberal "free trade" economic model that so many of our business and political elites remain pigheadedly in love with.

And as I noted in point 2), the supporters of immigration and open borders have a lot of their own explaining and thinking to do. I didn't post it in the original post, since that had to do more specifically with Canada, but I think that progressives themselves could do a hell of a lot better at criticizing the crazies in their midst.

It's one thing to advocate for safe spaces for certain minorities, and to address specific triggering issues (which the media have been doing for years with content warnings anyway), but it's quite another to rip up American flags on Veterans' Day (as some of the Brown loons did last week), to harass unpopular speakers and the people who want to listen to them, or to whine that your studies are getting in the way of your social activism (no joke, this is another Brown loon-that place seems to be going over the edge).

I've seen plenty of conservatives, including here at CKA, rip on Ezra Levant for being a pompous asshat who makes Canadian conservatism look bad. I only wish I saw more of that in general-being willing to call out people in your own "camp" for idiocy or assholishness, even as you cheer on the success of politicians, parties and causes you support. Maybe that type of criticism, judiciously applied, could assure people who don't disagree with you of your good faith, which is one of the things I was originally trying to get at.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:16 pm
 


BartSimpson wrote:
JaredMilne wrote:
3) Finally, supporters of Trump and his ideas for 'making America great again' need to explain how they will protect ethnic and sexual minorities from being harassed, threatened and attacked by bigots who feel empowered by Trump's election. After all, the Constitutions of both Canada and the U.S. extend rights and freedoms to those people, too.


They'll still have the same rights as everyone else but they may find it difficult to push their views and values on everyone else as they've become accustomed to doing in recent years.

Trying to force religious people to approve of gay marriage and to endorse it with their labor will likely be very difficult by this time next year.

Forcing conservative students & faculty in the colleges to self-censor or else face sanction will likely be very difficult by this time next year.

Liberals who like to take away people's gun rights will find that task much more difficult by this time next year.

Pedophiles and other sexual deviants who want to use the bathroom of their choice instead of the bathroom appropriate to their physical characteristics will find that to be difficult, too.

And the assumption that anyone not getting in line with liberal Democrat views on these topics is why Trump won the election in the first place. To denounce us in advance for harassing, threatening, and attacking liberals isn't going to help your cause. To the contrary, to me it demonstrates the urgency with which civil rights and Constitutional rule needs to be restored in the USA.



So civil rights, unless you're gay or a university, in which case the new Republican President will rule your daily life like a tyrant. Also black people who want to speak out about police harassment are on notice.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:40 pm
 


Why is it a civil right to force other people to do what you want?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:11 pm
 


MeganC wrote:
Why is it a civil right to force other people to do what you want?


Because we wouldn't function as a society otherwise.


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