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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:34 am
 


Individualist wrote:
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So I think that's where a lot of the appeal of conservatism can come from. Making it more difficult to caricature them as Canada's answer to Bible Belt Republicans goes a long way towards broadening their appeal, too. Let's not forget Stephen Harper and Jason Kenney's success at reaching out to more conservative-minded immigrants, such that about a decade ago the Tories were the ones with the most ethnically diverse caucus in Parliament. In Alberta's 2012 election, one wag remarked on the irony of the Progressive Conservatives and the Wildrose Alliance being led by women, while the NDP was the only party with a middle-aged white guy at the helm.

As to how to combine such efforts with reaching out to the likes of Kellie Leitch supporters and pro-life activists...well, that's something I'm less sure about. What would you think, Individualist?


The advantage that Liberals have over the Convervatives is that the disgruntled far-left types in the former have somewhere they can go - the NDP (or for the really out there, one of Canada’s two, yes two, communist parties). There is no major “further right” party at the federal level to draw the wackos and single-issue zealots out of the CPC. The mainstream media loves to play guilt-by-association, and nothing short of booting such people out of the party will satisfy those ideological antibodies.

Choosing a political party to vote for is like buying a suit off the rack. You find the one that works best with your unique (in this case ideological) shape, knowing you may have to settle for the sleeves being just a bit too short (not enough of Policy X) or the pants a little too roomy (too much of Policy Y). The company making the suits has to come up with a cut that will work for as much of their market as possible.

Nativism and pro-life activism are as toxic for parties of the right in Canada as intersectional identity politics are becoming for parties of the left. Trump made sure of that. These people either need to suck it up and vote for the option closest to them on other issues or start their own party.



That was actually a nice post. Welcome back!


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:15 am
 


The other thing Conservatives need to remember is that, unlike the NDP (and they’re not even that consistent anymore), the Liberals are not an anti-business party. They’re an anti-business-without-connections-to-the-party party. They’re the referee who shows preference for certain teams, and this inherent cronyism is a vulnerability Conservatives can take advantage of. Canadians have a sense of fair play, and don’t like rigged games, whether on the ice or in the economy.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:22 am
 


Individualist wrote:
The other thing Conservatives need to remember is that, unlike the NDP (and they’re not even that consistent anymore), the Liberals are not an anti-business party. They’re an anti-business-without-connections-to-the-party party. They’re the referee who shows preference for certain teams, and this inherent cronyism is a vulnerability Conservatives can take advantage of. Canadians have a sense of fair play, and don’t like rigged games, whether on the ice or in the economy.


I don’t think that’s true at all.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:57 am
 


Individualist wrote:
They’re an anti-business-without-connections-to-the-party party.


ROTFL ROTFL ROTFL ROTFL


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 10:55 am
 


martin14 wrote:
Individualist wrote:
They’re an anti-business-without-connections-to-the-party party.


ROTFL ROTFL ROTFL ROTFL


Corporatism: It's called Crony Capitalism as a slur if the right does it. Personally, I think the democratic socialists of Europe are the reigning champions.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 10:06 pm
 


N_Fiddledog wrote:

Corporatism: It's called Crony Capitalism as a slur if the right does it. Personally, I think the democratic socialists of Europe are the reigning champions.


Corruption is endemic to European politics but nobody outdoes Republicans.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 10:16 pm
 


Conservatives in the US should shut up about crony capitalism when they've done even worse things like that, like appointing judges (all the way to the level of the Supreme Court), with things like Citizens United. That's gaming the system permanently in favour of nutcase economic & financial libertarianism, aka anarcho-capitalism, where corporations can try to buy elections through massive unaccountable donations that individuals could never hope to match.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:40 am
 


BeaverFever wrote:
Individualist wrote:
The other thing Conservatives need to remember is that, unlike the NDP (and they’re not even that consistent anymore), the Liberals are not an anti-business party. They’re an anti-business-without-connections-to-the-party party. They’re the referee who shows preference for certain teams, and this inherent cronyism is a vulnerability Conservatives can take advantage of. Canadians have a sense of fair play, and don’t like rigged games, whether on the ice or in the economy.


I don’t think that’s true at all.


In fairness, it’s more a Laurentian trait than specifically a Liberal one. Mulroney was as bad as Chretien or any of them on this. It was one of the reasons the NDP was an awkward fit within the Laurentian Consensus (another being the fact that, pre-Layton, they had too much of a Western Canadian scent for the Laurentian nose). It’s just that the Liberals are the extant faction.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:35 am
 


Individualist wrote:
BeaverFever wrote:
Individualist wrote:
The other thing Conservatives need to remember is that, unlike the NDP (and they’re not even that consistent anymore), the Liberals are not an anti-business party. They’re an anti-business-without-connections-to-the-party party. They’re the referee who shows preference for certain teams, and this inherent cronyism is a vulnerability Conservatives can take advantage of. Canadians have a sense of fair play, and don’t like rigged games, whether on the ice or in the economy.


I don’t think that’s true at all.


In fairness, it’s more a Laurentian trait than specifically a Liberal one. Mulroney was as bad as Chretien or any of them on this. It was one of the reasons the NDP was an awkward fit within the Laurentian Consensus (another being the fact that, pre-Layton, they had too much of a Western Canadian scent for the Laurentian nose). It’s just that the Liberals are the extant faction.


So then please remind us where Tater Tot is from.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:39 am
 


Individualist wrote:
BeaverFever wrote:
Individualist wrote:
The other thing Conservatives need to remember is that, unlike the NDP (and they’re not even that consistent anymore), the Liberals are not an anti-business party. They’re an anti-business-without-connections-to-the-party party. They’re the referee who shows preference for certain teams, and this inherent cronyism is a vulnerability Conservatives can take advantage of. Canadians have a sense of fair play, and don’t like rigged games, whether on the ice or in the economy.


I don’t think that’s true at all.


In fairness, it’s more a Laurentian trait than specifically a Liberal one. Mulroney was as bad as Chretien or any of them on this. It was one of the reasons the NDP was an awkward fit within the Laurentian Consensus (another being the fact that, pre-Layton, they had too much of a Western Canadian scent for the Laurentian nose). It’s just that the Liberals are the extant faction.



But you that as if to suggest that it’s somehow different in the non-“Laurentian” world. Western Canada has its own insiders club too As does anywhere else. Look at Stephen Harper and Brad Wall’s jihad against the environment and coddling if the oil & gas industry, something that’s common across all party lines to varying degree. All you’re really saying is that politicians have to acknowledge and appease powerful business interests that can influence public opinion and fundraising.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:08 am
 


One things that’s easily forgotten in a media (social and otherwise) landscape that celebrates the extreme viewpoint is that Canadians are not sorting themselves into fascist and communist camps. The vast majority of conservatives are neither white supremacists not anarcho-capitalists, and the vast majority of progressives are not neo-Stalinist SJWs. If we’re settling into opposing camps, it is those who believe private enterprise is a necessary evil versus those who see government as a necessary evil. The key word in both cases is “necessary”. We are still arguing over the ratio of a mixed economy within a democratic society, and debating the amount of state intervention that should be utilized in trying to create a fair society and soften the sometimes sharp edges of a market economy. The majority of us have more in common with each other than with the fringes on either side.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:53 am
 


Individualist wrote:
One things that’s easily forgotten in a media (social and otherwise) landscape that celebrates the extreme viewpoint is that Canadians are not sorting themselves into fascist and communist camps. The vast majority of conservatives are neither white supremacists not anarcho-capitalists, and the vast majority of progressives are not neo-Stalinist SJWs. If we’re settling into opposing camps, it is those who believe private enterprise is a necessary evil versus those who see government as a necessary evil. The key word in both cases is “necessary”. We are still arguing over the ratio of a mixed economy within a democratic society, and debating the amount of state intervention that should be utilized in trying to create a fair society and soften the sometimes sharp edges of a market economy. The majority of us have more in common with each other than with the fringes on either side.


Another great post. I would add that it’s the new/alternative/intern based media that highlights and caters to extremism. The traditional media sometimes does while chasing ratings especially the US and 24-hour news channels but not nearly to the same degree as online media.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:03 am
 


The crisis for conservatism in Canada is the same as it is in the US, and in the UK and in general, throughout the West. It's very hard to get elected as a conservative. Why? Pretty simple, really. Most of the population pays little or no income tax. Why in hell would they want to vote for a conservative who vows to do things like reduce taxes and balance the budget and in doing so, cut back on the government services they all like?

A study published by the WSJ a couple of weeks ago pointed out that under the new tax plan, the top 20% of income earners will now be responsible for paying 87% of income taxes - which fund almost all those government services. If you're not in that top 20% that's a PRETTY GOOD DEAL! You get all the services, and can vote for politicians who will give you even more. And you don't have to pay for it!

The situation is even worse in places like Canada and the UK, because their progressive tax systems are even more, well, progressive. The people who get heavily taxed might not like it, but they're only 20% of the population. The rest are happy to vote in leftist politicians who promise them ever more government services.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:04 am
 


BeaverFever wrote:
Individualist wrote:
One things that’s easily forgotten in a media (social and otherwise) landscape that celebrates the extreme viewpoint is that Canadians are not sorting themselves into fascist and communist camps. The vast majority of conservatives are neither white supremacists not anarcho-capitalists, and the vast majority of progressives are not neo-Stalinist SJWs. If we’re settling into opposing camps, it is those who believe private enterprise is a necessary evil versus those who see government as a necessary evil. The key word in both cases is “necessary”. We are still arguing over the ratio of a mixed economy within a democratic society, and debating the amount of state intervention that should be utilized in trying to create a fair society and soften the sometimes sharp edges of a market economy. The majority of us have more in common with each other than with the fringes on either side.


Another great post. I would add that it’s the new/alternative/intern based media that highlights and caters to extremism. The traditional media sometimes does while chasing ratings especially the US and 24-hour news channels but not nearly to the same degree as online media.

Traditional media doesn't seem to sensationalize as badly as alternative media, but it's still largely garbage.

Michael Crichton wrote:
Briefly stated, the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect works as follows. You open the newspaper to an article on some subject you know well. In Murray’s case, physics. In mine, show business. You read the article and see the journalist has absolutely no understanding of either the facts or the issues. Often, the article is so wrong it actually presents the story backward-reversing cause and effect. I call these the “wet streets cause rain” stories. Paper’s full of them.

In any case, you read with exasperation or amusement the multiple errors in a story-and then turn the page to national or international affairs, and read with renewed interest as if the rest of the newspaper was somehow more accurate about far-off Palestine than it was about the story you just read. You turn the page, and forget what you know.


If you've ever read a news article about something you are very familiar with, you know how bad journalists can be. Yet we forget that when we read an article about something we aren't familiar with. The current state of journalism is trying to find who is the least wrong in what they report, intentionally or not.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:10 am
 


Vbeacher wrote:
The crisis for conservatism in Canada is the same as it is in the US, and in the UK and in general, throughout the West. It's very hard to get elected as a conservative. Why? Pretty simple, really. Most of the population pays little or no income tax. Why in hell would they want to vote for a conservative who vows to do things like reduce taxes and balance the budget and in doing so, cut back on the government services they all like?

A study published by the WSJ a couple of weeks ago pointed out that under the new tax plan, the top 20% of income earners will now be responsible for paying 87% of income taxes - which fund almost all those government services. If you're not in that top 20% that's a PRETTY GOOD DEAL! You get all the services, and can vote for politicians who will give you even more. And you don't have to pay for it!

The situation is even worse in places like Canada and the UK, because their progressive tax systems are even more, well, progressive. The people who get heavily taxed might not like it, but they're only 20% of the population. The rest are happy to vote in leftist politicians who promise them ever more government services.


The dirty secret the left doesn’t want to admit is that taxing the rich at 100% wouldn’t generate enough revenue to fund everything they want to do. That’s why deficits are back in fashion. The same people who fret about leaving future generations a damaged planet have no compunction at all about bequeathing those same as-yet-unborn Canadians a mountain of government debt.


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