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CKA Uber
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 12:54 pm
 


Clogeroo Clogeroo:
Provinces are free to join and leave my friend this confederation is only 139 years old.


Are they though? If Alberta can up and leave, can't the Treaty Eight First Nations up and leave Alberta? And what if Medicine Hat decided that it actually liked Canada better. Are they just free to leave the Republic of Alberta? And what if the Alberta NDP Association decided that they didn't want Ezra Levant as premier. Can those individuals just decalre themselves as a part of Canada? Or can Joe-Bob Wingnut simply declare himself a separate country?

If any province tries to separate, they get invaded and crushed. This is the policy in the US. It seems to have worked for them.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 12:59 pm
 


$1:
Clogeroo, what about the demographics that show Western Canada with an above average aging society? How do we overcome something like that? Briing in more immigrants for 3rd world countries? I'm one of those they talk about. I'm ready to call it quits. I figure another two years and I'll be wealthy enough to retire in a manner that lets me live better than someone in Alberta. Explain to me how an independence and loss of my pension would motivate me to join your seperatist movement? By the way, this same situation is happening by the tens of thousands in Quebec and BC. I'm not unique in my thoughts.

Take control of our pensions? A portion of the Canada pension plan could be transfered to western Canada and those living in it and have worked there would collect this. Or those currently collecting on a Canada pension will stay onto it until they are deceased.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:03 pm
 


Zipperfish Zipperfish:
Clogeroo Clogeroo:
Provinces are free to join and leave my friend this confederation is only 139 years old.


Are they though? If Alberta can up and leave, can't the Treaty Eight First Nations up and leave Alberta? And what if Medicine Hat decided that it actually liked Canada better. Are they just free to leave the Republic of Alberta? And what if the Alberta NDP Association decided that they didn't want Ezra Levant as premier. Can those individuals just decalre themselves as a part of Canada? Or can Joe-Bob Wingnut simply declare himself a separate country?

If any province tries to separate, they get invaded and crushed. This is the policy in the US. It seems to have worked for them.


No kidding. What would there be to stop the Regional Municipality of Wood Buffalo from ceceeding from Alberta? What if Edmonton didn't want to be associated with Calgary? Who would be stuck with Red Deer? :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:08 pm
 


Clogeroo Clogeroo:
$1:
Clogeroo, what about the demographics that show Western Canada with an above average aging society? How do we overcome something like that? Briing in more immigrants for 3rd world countries? I'm one of those they talk about. I'm ready to call it quits. I figure another two years and I'll be wealthy enough to retire in a manner that lets me live better than someone in Alberta. Explain to me how an independence and loss of my pension would motivate me to join your seperatist movement? By the way, this same situation is happening by the tens of thousands in Quebec and BC. I'm not unique in my thoughts.

Take control of our pensions? A portion of the Canada pension plan could be transfered to western Canada and those living in it and have worked there would collect this. Or those currently collecting on a Canada pension will stay onto it until they are deceased.


Uh huh, "could be." That's federal money now. Alberta wants to split, Alberta can take care of Albertans. Why should it be easy?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:12 pm
 


$1:
Your provincial or geographical location shouldn't matter, I don't care if you live in PEI, Nunavut or BC, Canada should always be the very first thing that you look out for.


HEAR HEAR!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:16 pm
 


$1:
Are they though? If Alberta can up and leave, can't the Treaty Eight First Nations up and leave Alberta? And what if Medicine Hat decided that it actually liked Canada better. Are they just free to leave the Republic of Alberta? And what if the Alberta NDP Association decided that they didn't want Ezra Levant as premier. Can those individuals just decalre themselves as a part of Canada? Or can Joe-Bob Wingnut simply declare himself a separate country?

If any province tries to separate, they get invaded and crushed. This is the policy in the US. It seems to have worked for them.

Due to the Clarity Act provinces are free to leave and I don't think it is just limited to Quebec. But you are correct ultimately if we want to do it legally we would need the other provinces, house of commons, senate, and the governor general to sign it. First nations within the provinces and in Canada would also need approval if they were to leave as well so no not any joe-bob can declare they are their own country. Much like Canada needed approval from the United Kingdom to have our own self governing dominion. Yes if we really wanted to we could have a war over it but I really doubt Canada will stand up against democracy or the wishes of the provinces. Surely we can behave in a fairly civilised manner about it. Getting the vote to leave is just the first step it won't all happen over night and many negotiations and technicalities must be dealt with first. The best thing would probably be to put a deadline on it following the referendum.

Clarity Act

* Giving the House of Commons the power to decide whether a proposed referendum question was considered clear before the public vote;
* Specifically stating that any question not solely referring to secession was to be considered unclear;
* Giving the House of Commons the power to determine whether or not a clear majority has expressed itself in any referendum, implying that some sort of supermajority is required for success;
* Stating that all provinces and the First Nations were to be part of the negotiations;
* Allowing the House of Commons to override a referendum decision if it felt the referendum violated any of the tenets of the Clarity Act;
* The secession of a province of Canada would require an amendment to the Constitution of Canada.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:33 pm
 


Province------------Population--------seats
New Brunswick--------729 498----------10
Nova Scotia-----------908 007----------11
Saskatchewan--------978 933----------14
Manitoba-----------1 119 583----------14
Alberta-------------2 974 807----------28
British Columbia---3 907 738-----------36
Quebec------------7 237 479-----------75
Ontario-----------11 410 046----------106
These are existing 2001 population numbers.
source


By 2005 numbers:
Quebec-----------7,598.100
Alberta-----------3,256.800
BC----------------4,254.500

source

As it is now, BC and Alberta equal Quebec in population but has 11 less seats. Reguardless of population, I doubt there will ever be a day when Canada grants the west it's fair share,
and the solution is definately not to elect more Liberals.

Formatting sucks.


Last edited by ridenrain on Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:41 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:36 pm
 


$1:
honestly, you people have to stop crying about every little thing. Separatism should be like suicide, it should only be an option at the most extreme of times, and even then...it shouldn't really be an option. Quit being such cry babies and realize for once that Ontario has been getting raped in the ass by every single province except Alberta for the last few decades because we're the only ones that can sustain ourselves and sustain the other poorer provinces at the same time.

Your provincial or geographical location shouldn't matter, I don't care if you live in PEI, Nunavut or BC, Canada should always be the very first thing that you look out for.


OMFG! Someone else who sees the light!!! 8O

BRAVO MAN, FUCKIN' BRAVO!!!

PDT_Armataz_01_37


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:37 pm
 


camerontech camerontech:
Quit being such cry babies and realize for once that Ontario has been getting raped in the ass by every single province except Alberta for the last few decades because we're the only ones that can sustain ourselves and sustain the other poorer provinces at the same time.



PDT_Armataz_01_37

Now explain to me again why Ontario should stay in Canada? We have different values from Western Canada, Quebec hates us, and Newfoundland wants us to pay their bills while they twiddle their thumbs over their stockpile of liquid gold.

BTW, I guarantee Newfoundland will be separating as soon as they become self-sufficient. Look at how easy they took down their flags when they "couldn't take yes for an answer".

Western Canada wants out, Quebec wants out, the Atlantic provinces will want out once after they're rich.

It's stupid for Ontario to continue being part of this charade. We will continue throwing away money for the next 10-20 years and then find everyone else rich off of our hard work and us laying bruised in a ditch.

The only thing we have in common across Canada is hockey, and I don't think a sport is a reason to throw away our resources.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:37 pm
 


Zipperfish Zipperfish:
If any province tries to separate, they get invaded and crushed. This is the policy in the US. It seems to have worked for them.

This is the result of an illegal coup. It is not sound law or working very well, (unless of course, you're tritium and think that Shrub and the neocons are the best thing since enema bags).


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:38 pm
 


ridenrain ridenrain:
Province Population Seats
New Brunswick 729 498 10
Nova Scotia 908 007 11
Saskatchewan 978 933 14
Manitoba 1 119 583 14
Alberta 2 974 807 28
British Columbia 3 907 738 36
Quebec 7 237 479 75
Ontario 11 410 046 106
These are existing 2001 population numbers.
source


By 2005 numbers:
Quebec 7,598.100
Alberta 3,256.800
BC 4,254.500

source

As it is now, BC and Alberta equal Quebec in population but has 11 less seats. Reguardless of population, I doubt there will ever be a day when Canada grants the west it's fair share,
and the solution is definately not to elect more Liberals.


Darn skippy. The solution is to elect more NDP, who will embark on a campaign of electoral reform and make everyone's vote count equally.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:39 pm
 


Zipperfish Zipperfish:
Clogeroo Clogeroo:
Provinces are free to join and leave my friend this confederation is only 139 years old.


................If any province tries to separate, they get invaded and crushed. This is the policy in the US. It seems to have worked for them.


And here is where things get a little funny. You see, I was in the military and know damn well the military doesn't have the resources to take care of a 100 sq kms much less an area the size of Alberta. I think you need to be more realistic about what Canada can do and what it can't do to an entire population the size of Alberta. Also consider that Western Canadians and Maritime regions make up a large population of the combat troops. Explain to them how they are to crush their home province. I compare that to telling Iraqi troops to open fire on their home village...Highly unlikely to happen Zipperfish. A departing province would simply depart and Ottawa would have to deal with it. That includes Quebec.

Besides...How are they going to get those troops moved around...On those pretend helicopters and troops transports the Liberals purchased? :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:40 pm
 


The Clarity Act does not govern the process for separation, it establishes the conditions under which the Government of Canada would enter into negotiations that might lead to secession following such a vote by one of the provinces. It certainly does not mean, by any interpretation that provinces are, as you put it "free to leave."

Indeed the Supreme Court famously ruled that unilateral sepaaration was not legal under Canadian Law, and that international law "does not specifically grant component parts of sovereign states the legal right to secede unilaterally from their 'parent' state." The Court ruled that the federal government would have to enter into negotiations with the Quebec governement if Quebecers expressed a clear will to secede.

You do correctly note that if Canada is divisible, then so is the Republic of Alberta. (However, with respect to First Nations, I beg to differ with your opinion that they would have to get the approval for the Republic of Alberta to secede.)

It's my personal opinion that provinces shouldn't be allowed to secede.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:46 pm
 


$1:
Province Population Seats
New Brunswick 729 498 10
Nova Scotia 908 007 11
Saskatchewan 978 933 14
Manitoba 1 119 583 14
Alberta 2 974 807 28
British Columbia 3 907 738 36
Quebec 7 237 479 75
Ontario 11 410 046 106
These are existing 2001 population numbers.
source


By 2005 numbers:
Quebec 7,598.100
Alberta 3,256.800
BC 4,254.500

source

As it is now, BC and Alberta equal Quebec in population but has 11 less seats. Reguardless of population, I doubt there will ever be a day when Canada grants the west it's fair share,
and the solution is definately not to elect more Liberals.


By that logic, Ontario is getting shortchanged as well.

The Metro Toronto Area has a population greater than B.C., is it therefore entitled to more than 34 seats?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:50 pm
 


hurley_108 hurley_108:
ridenrain ridenrain:
Province Population Seats
New Brunswick 729 498 10
Nova Scotia 908 007 11
Saskatchewan 978 933 14
Manitoba 1 119 583 14
Alberta 2 974 807 28
British Columbia 3 907 738 36
Quebec 7 237 479 75
Ontario 11 410 046 106
These are existing 2001 population numbers.
source


By 2005 numbers:
Quebec 7,598.100
Alberta 3,256.800
BC 4,254.500

source

As it is now, BC and Alberta equal Quebec in population but has 11 less seats. Reguardless of population, I doubt there will ever be a day when Canada grants the west it's fair share,
and the solution is definately not to elect more Liberals.


Darn skippy. The solution is to elect more NDP, who will embark on a campaign of electoral reform and make everyone's vote count equally.
Yes lets elect the NDP for Electoral reform, the watch our economy sink faster then a submarine with screen doors. Not to mention our military volunteer numbers drop, and the equipment get so old we have to blow dust off them when the NDP grows a spine.


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