[Scape]

$1:

Yes income tax was supposed to be a temporary measure, but that doesn't mean that people will accept the current limitations on travel, worship, commerce, etc. after the pandemic ends, anymore than they would have accepted wartime restrictions after WW2 ended.

That reminded me of this analogy. I get that the government broke the promise made during World War ONE but if you want a modern society you need a tax base. The point being raised is absurd on its face.

[CDN_PATRIOT]

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

bootlegga bootlegga:

I'm disappointed in you Winnipegger for posting the tripe you have here.

I'm disappointed in you. You should be very concerned about government overreach.

EVERYONE should be concerned by government overreach. Problem is, unlike our American cousins, most Canadians are docile and don't question anything. This is why we have crummy federal and provincial governments (the exception being the Territories) that can't even be trusted to run a broom closet on the best of days.

Canadians should demand better, but most of us don't mainly because of apathy and ignorance, the likes of which my international friends remind of almost daily.

-J.

[Zipperfish]

I was quite concerned about the road blocks set up in BC to enforce in-province travel restrictions. As you know, we have a constitutional legal protection against arbitrary detainment. Road blocks for drunk driving underwent a Constitutional challenge, and the Supreme Court allowed it as a reasonable infringement on balance. I don't agree myself--anecdotally, most of my friends and family that have been issued tickets at road blocks were for a variety of offences not concerned with drinking and driving. In other words, in my opinion, the cops use the roadblocks as an "in" to nail you for other violations.

That said, I see little evidence of any of these emergency powers the government has using becoming permanent. Mass quarantines have been in effect before, and lifted when the threat was over. Numbers are dropping substantially now in BC, where I live.

Frankly, it's been a shitty marathon, and we're nearing the end. Hang on a little longer.

[Zipperfish]

CDN_PATRIOT CDN_PATRIOT:

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

bootlegga bootlegga:

I'm disappointed in you Winnipegger for posting the tripe you have here.

I'm disappointed in you. You should be very concerned about government overreach.

EVERYONE should be concerned by government overreach. Problem is, unlike our American cousins, most Canadians are docile and don't question anything. This is why we have crummy federal and provincial governments (the exception being the Territories) that can't even be trusted to run a broom closet on the best of days.

Canadians should demand better, but most of us don't mainly because of apathy and ignorance, the likes of which my international friends remind of almost daily.

-J.

Unlike our American cousins? Sorry, but it's a complete shit-show down there, with the anti-vaxxers and the mask protests. And I don't think Canadians will put up a permanent state of emergency and increased gov't power. Myself, I'm going off quarantine September latest. That'll be 18 months. I'm sure the quarantine and emergency powers will be lifted by then, but even if they aren't I'm going back to my life, regardless.

[CDN_PATRIOT]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Unlike our American cousins? Sorry, but it's a complete shit-show down there, with the anti-vaxxers and the mask protests.

I wasn't so much referring to current events than I was the American spirit for freedom and advocating change. My American friends admire Canada for quiet strength and certain aspects of our systems up here, and I admire them for their courage, tenacity, and how their patriotism even in times of crisis.

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

And I don't think Canadians will put up with a permanent state of emergency and increased gov't power.

We shall see.

-J.

[herbie]

Hey guys, five years have gone by and it's Census time again. Time for all those to crawl from under a rock and bellow how their privacy is being invaded, I shouldn't have to, they're not gonna make me, etc etc. etc.
Got invited to work for them again, but I'm too old and gimpy to cruise around hopping in an out the Jeep in this rural area. And after more than a year of Covid assholes, probably punch the first whiner that stuck out bottom lip, crossed their arms over their chest and made out that it's more complicated than returning a pair of socks to WalMart....

[raydan]

herbie herbie:

Hey guys, five years have gone by and it's Census time again. Time for all those to crawl from under a rock and bellow how their privacy is being invaded, I shouldn't have to, they're not gonna make me, etc etc. etc.
Got invited to work for them again, but I'm too old and gimpy to cruise around hopping in an out the Jeep in this rural area. And after more than a year of Covid assholes, probably punch the first whiner that stuck out bottom lip, crossed their arms over their chest and made out that it's more complicated than returning a pair of socks to WalMart....

I worked for them in 2011 and when I completed the census questionnaire online this year, I saw the link for work and applied. I cancelled that yesterday.

[JaredMilne]

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

This does have to be dealt with. A former director of Emergency Services in Alberta posted a video last March (2020) saying they had procedures and protocols for pandemic. He saw 4 pandemics in his lifetime before COVID. He would NEVER do what they're doing. Long term care homes should have been locked down last March. That means staff cannot leave the building. If staff work at more than one facility, then tell them they can't any more. At least not during the pandemic. That's a great way of spreading disease from one facility to another. And if they're concerned they can't see family then do something like 30 days on / 30 days off. I would do it differently: my father was a construction worker before he met my mother. He would work remote work sites 6 weeks on / 2 weeks off. They would work long hours 7 days per week for 6 weeks, then the employer would pay for an airplane ticket to fly them back home for 2 weeks. If the work site was too far to drive. Do that. And as the retired Alberta director said, if that means you have to pay staff more, just do it.

He said you don't lock-down healthy people.

I have criticized the Manitoba government. I think I already said this, but we had achieved zero cases. ZERO!!! Then they opened the borders. That was stupid! The government asked for public input, so I did write my recommendation, and their government website gave a list of ministers my response was sent to. So they knew, they have no excuse. I said lock down the border hard! Do not open the border, instead open the economy inside the province. At that time all 3 territories also had zero cases. I said create a virus free zone, with very strict border controls. As neighbouring areas become virus free, we expand the virus free zone. Free movement inside the virus free zone, but no crossing in or out.

Okay, you've completely lost me.

First you complain about all the restrictions governments have put in place to try and keep the virus under control, saying they violate the Charter. Fair enough. But here you're complaining about the Manitoba government opening its borders, whereas closing them was itself a violation of the Charter's mobility rights.

So do you oppose lockdowns and restrictive measures as unconstitutional, or not? Which actions are acceptable and/or constitutional in your view?

[Thanos]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

We are far more concerned about Government Underreach that has led to this 3rd wave killing and maiming people, when everyone saw it coming back at Christmas. A complete lack of enforcement is killing small business, and people, in Canada.

Would rep if I could.

It's so bad right now that government overreach is now a quaint problem from an older decade far in the past. I'm far more worried now about my fellow citizen who's gone literally batshit insane with conspiracy theories that he's now a threat not just to society but now also to my own personal health and safety. Social media being used by a pack of professional ratfuckers like Ezra Levant and the Trump types now playing their game on Canadian soil and have turned the common people into a literal torch-carrying mob trying to get other people killed because of "muh 'rites". This isn't freedom anymore, it's complete and total chaos being deliberately stoked by some real-world versions of Petyr Littlefinger as their own opportunity to climb upwards.

The worst things come from chaos. There is nothing else (not even full-blown warfare) that is as dangerous as a power-vaccum or as a leader too cowardly to do his job or a breakdown of law & order. This is when things get broken into so many pieces that they can never be put back together again. And what's been shattered in Alberta, for example, is not just faith in our provincial government. Our faith in each other as good people and good citizens is now blown into a million pieces.

How can we ever trust each other again after this moral & systemic destruction of the last few weeks?

[Winnipegger]

JaredMilne JaredMilne:

First you complain about all the restrictions governments have put in place to try and keep the virus under control, saying they violate the Charter. Fair enough. But here you're complaining about the Manitoba government opening its borders, whereas closing them was itself a violation of the Charter's mobility rights.

So do you oppose lockdowns and restrictive measures as unconstitutional, or not? Which actions are acceptable and/or constitutional in your view?

I'm complaining about restrictive measures that are *NOT* keeping the virus under control. The government doesn't know what it's doing.

Let me make this simple. If they kept boarders to Manitoba closed, and made air travel from outside the country *MORE* restrictive, they could have lifted all restrictions within the province. We had 7 deaths by 06-March-2020, and no more by 24-July. (Looked that up to ensure I get numbers right.) Opening the borders brought the disease in. By Halloween there were 82 dead, so 75 more. If they kept borders closed, those people would not be dead. Today 997 dead, so that means 990 more than 24-July-2020!

These lock-downs within the province are causing massive harm to our economy, massive harm to our culture. And they don't work!

[DrCaleb]

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

Opening the borders brought the disease in. By Halloween there were 82 dead, so 75 more. If they kept borders closed, those people would not be dead. Today 997 dead, so that means 990 more than 24-July-2020!

These lock-downs within the province are causing massive harm to our economy, massive harm to our culture. And they don't work!

So you were complaining about Charter Rights, and the right for a citizen to enter Canada is actually a charter right.

It's not opening the border that failed, it's people not following the health guidance and isolating themselves upon return that failed. How else, with restricted international flights, does variants from Brazil, India and the UK end up in the population? Try not to blame the Government for obeying the Charter and letting citizens return, blame the citizens for infecting their communities because they didn't give a shit about public safety.

[Winnipegger]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

So you were complaining about Charter Rights, and the right for a citizen to enter Canada is actually a charter right.

An American entering Canada from California is not a citizen. I lived in the United States for a while: in a suburb of Richmond Virginia for 6 months in 1996, and Miami Florida for 10 months in 1999/2000. Many Canadians watch TV and think they know American culture, but you don't. Americans have absolutely no respect for non-American government. And it's part of American culture to do everything they can to get around restrictions. If you tell an American that he can't enter Canada, then he doesn't listen to anything you say. All he's looking for is the exception. As soon as you say "UNLESS he's driving through to Alaska", then he says that applies to him right now. It doesn't matter that he has no intention of doing so, he'll say it just to get around the restriction. Americans do see this as violating the rules or doing anything wrong, they see it as their civic duty. They will do everything possible to violate restrictions by American officials or American government, they have absolutely no respect for rules imposed by non-Americans. When a waitress in Banff found Texans at a table in her restaurant expecting to be served, she asked how they got in the country. They answered they said they were driving through to Alaska. They had no intention of doing so, Banff was their destination. Again, they didn't see this as any sort of offence, those men from Texas considered lying to border security as their civic duty.

Those actors and film crew from California who entered Winnipeg did not consider the affidavit they signed as a serious court document. It's a document from a non-American country. They don't believe America would extradite an American citizen anywhere outside the United States, so any law in Canada they think doesn't apply to them. Let the producer deal with that silly piece of toilet paper. Actors and crew won't sign it themselves. If Manitoba government were to require everyone one of them to sign, they would see that as allowing them into Manitoba. Absolutely nothing else on that piece of paper means anything. It doesn't matter if you use the Official coat of Arms of the Manitoba Government, it doesn't matter how big you make the text. Nothing matters. Americans consider that just an inconvenience that allows them into Manitoba. Nothing else. Absolutely nothing else. They won't pay any fines, because they don't believe an non-American government has authority to impose fines on an American. If Manitoba creates trouble, they'll just go back the US. Once back across the border, they aren't required to pay any fines, cannot be arrested for anything they did. You could mention the extradition treaty with the US, but American citizens believe that doesn't apply to them. They seriously believe that an extradition treaty means American police have the right to arrest anyone they want outside the US, but no American citizen can be extradited outside the US. True or not, that's what they believe.

Have I belaboured this long enough for you to get it?

So the problem isn't Canadians returning to Canada. Well, that's a problem too. But the much greater problem is non-Canadians. Especially Americans.

As for the Hutterites who went to Alberta... the rules said they could do so and return to Manitoba without any form of self-isolation. So when they did so, they didn't violate any rules, didn't violate any health advice. It caused a major outbreak.

Meanwhile Manitoba Premier Brian Pallister goes on camera literally angry and yelling into the camera, blaming Manitobans. He imposes draconian restrictions that violate the Charter. All in an attempt to blame someone else for his stupid decisions that caused many deaths.

[DrCaleb]

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

So you were complaining about Charter Rights, and the right for a citizen to enter Canada is actually a charter right.

An American entering Canada from California is not a citizen.

Find out if you can enter Canada

Tourism isn't allowed. People have been escorted out of the country because they decided to be 'tourists'.

But it is still up to the individual to obey health protocols. Personal responsibility is not the pervue of the Government. The spread of variant strains has been by citizens, not edge case workers who have a legitimate reason to enter Canada.

[Winnipegger]

If you argue "Personal responsibility is not the pervue of the Government", then that means they don't have the right to impose restrictions.

[DrCaleb]

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

If you argue "Personal responsibility is not the pervue of the Government", then that means they don't have the right to impose restrictions.

The Government is there to do things individual citizens cannot do based on a massive scale, like provide infrastructure, courts, and public safety. Personal responsibility is the pervue of the citizens, and cannot be legislated. Government is there to protect public safety by issuing health orders, but health orders must still be obeyed by the citizen. The government has the duty to impose restrictions based on public health, and the citizens have a duty to follow them.

Unless you want a total police state, like China. Then actions of citizens are monitored and controlled by the state.