[Bruce_the_vii]

Here’s Bob on rebuilding the Liberals

“He likens renewing the party to repairing three legs on a stool. Fixing internal communications and enhancing members' participation is one leg. The second is fundraising, and the third is crafting sensible policies.”

Ignatieff was a disaster. In particular the Liberal MPs couldn’t communicate with him and they didn’t understand his policies. I know it, you know it and Bob apparently knows it. A fiasco in our own front yard.


http://www.straight.com/article-404224/ ... eral-party

The mighty Liberal Party has been reduced to a third Party rump. But really they had four buffoons as leaders in a row. Chretien, Martin, Dion and Ignatieff. These guys, all four of them, were at odds with their MPs. Now Bob is saying, yup, that happened. They're in pretty bad shape but at least Bob says he's listening.

[martin14]

Bob who ?

[OnTheIce]

Bruce_the_vii wrote:

The mighty Liberal Party has been reduced to a third Party rump. But really they had four buffoons as leaders in a row. Chretien, Martin, Dion and Ignatieff. These guys, all four of them, were at odds with their MPs. Now Bob is saying, yup, that happened. They're in pretty bad shape but at least Bob says he's listening.

I'd make that 5 in a row.

[sandorski]

Chretien and Martin don't belong on that list.

[Bruce_the_vii]

OnTheIce wrote:

Bruce_the_vii wrote:

The mighty Liberal Party has been reduced to a third Party rump. But really they had four buffoons as leaders in a row. Chretien, Martin, Dion and Ignatieff. These guys, all four of them, were at odds with their MPs. Now Bob is saying, yup, that happened. They're in pretty bad shape but at least Bob says he's listening.

I'd make that 5 in a row.

I call myself a small "p" pol and read a certain amount of political reporting. As far as I can make out isolation at the top is a problem everywhere. At heart the leaders are average people and will have idiosyncratic ideas at some level. Harper has his own problems in this regard. He's doing pretty good, okay, but I bet he eventually steps in it.

[Bruce_the_vii]

sandorski wrote:

Chretien and Martin don't belong on that list.

Er, son, Chretien had the infamous "democratic deficit" and on Nov 5, 2011 the Liberal MPs voted with a opposition motion - which was a de facto vote of no confidence in their leader. Voting against the party had not happened in 100 years according to the newspapers. Chretien did ok, got the deficit down, then he wobbled off. People have forgotten already.

[DrCaleb]

sandorski wrote:

Chretien and Martin don't belong on that list.

Gotta agree there. Cretien was an asshole, not a buffoon. Martin seemed like a nice guy, except for the "do as I say, not as I do" attitude.

[Bruce_the_vii]

DrCaleb wrote:

sandorski wrote:

Chretien and Martin don't belong on that list.

Gotta agree there. Cretien was an asshole, not a buffoon. Martin seemed like a nice guy, except for the "do as I say, not as I do" attitude.

Martin fixed a $40 billion deficit which had been troubling Canadians for over a decade. He was a national hero, as the deficit was very worrisome. People wanted him to be PM. Then he got elected, steam rolled his way, to the Liberal leadership and he immediately started dictating to his Cabinet what they should be doing. He went from hero to unelectable in about 12 months. You seem to have forgotten that lesson.

Chretien is a mystery. No one knows exactly what is problem is. He took on his own party. So far no one has fathomed it.

[bootlegga]

Bruce_the_vii wrote:

The mighty Liberal Party has been reduced to a third Party rump. But really they had four buffoons as leaders in a row. Chretien, Martin, Dion and Ignatieff. These guys, all four of them, were at odds with their MPs. Now Bob is saying, yup, that happened. They're in pretty bad shape but at least Bob says he's listening.

Chretien was a buffoon? Yeah, winning four straight majorities is definitely how you describe a buffoon...

And Martin - he was arguably the best finance minister this country has ever had.

[Bruce_the_vii]

We seem to be forgetting the lessons from history. Both these guys ran into big trouble. Use what word you want.

[DrCaleb]

Bruce_the_vii wrote:

Martin fixed a $40 billion deficit which had been troubling Canadians for over a decade. He was a national hero, as the deficit was very worrisome. People wanted him to be PM. Then he got elected, steam rolled his way, to the Liberal leadership and he immediately started dictating to his Cabinet what they should be doing. He went from hero to unelectable in about 12 months. You seem to have forgotten that lesson.

On the contrary, I have not forgotten. It's because of the Trudeau - Turner - Cretien - Martin chain of leaders that I will never, ever cast a ballot for a memeber of the Liberal party of Canada, even if the Dhali Llama is leader and Jesus Christ himself runs as MP in my riding.

[Bruce_the_vii]

DrCaleb wrote:

Bruce_the_vii wrote:

Martin fixed a $40 billion deficit which had been troubling Canadians for over a decade. He was a national hero, as the deficit was very worrisome. People wanted him to be PM. Then he got elected, steam rolled his way, to the Liberal leadership and he immediately started dictating to his Cabinet what they should be doing. He went from hero to unelectable in about 12 months. You seem to have forgotten that lesson.

On the contrary, I have not forgotten. It's because of the Trudeau - Turner - Cretien - Martin chain of leaders that I will never, ever cast a ballot for a memeber of the Liberal party of Canada, even if the Dhali Llama is leader and Jesus Christ himself runs as MP in my riding.

I think the 30 years of deficits pretty much kicked the stuffing out of the idea of a big spending government, or any spending. All people want to see now is the books balanced, some parsimony.

[OnTheIce]

bootlegga wrote:

Bruce_the_vii wrote:

The mighty Liberal Party has been reduced to a third Party rump. But really they had four buffoons as leaders in a row. Chretien, Martin, Dion and Ignatieff. These guys, all four of them, were at odds with their MPs. Now Bob is saying, yup, that happened. They're in pretty bad shape but at least Bob says he's listening.

Chretien was a buffoon? Yeah, winning four straight majorities is definitely how you describe a buffoon...

And Martin - he was arguably the best finance minister this country has ever had.

The Liberal apologist comes out from the closet to proclaim his love for the long lost leaders of his beloved party.

[bootlegga]

OnTheIce wrote:

bootlegga wrote:

Bruce_the_vii wrote:

The mighty Liberal Party has been reduced to a third Party rump. But really they had four buffoons as leaders in a row. Chretien, Martin, Dion and Ignatieff. These guys, all four of them, were at odds with their MPs. Now Bob is saying, yup, that happened. They're in pretty bad shape but at least Bob says he's listening.

Chretien was a buffoon? Yeah, winning four straight majorities is definitely how you describe a buffoon...

And Martin - he was arguably the best finance minister this country has ever had.

The Liberal apologist comes out from the closet to proclaim his love for the long lost leaders of his beloved party.

Says the CPC party spokesman, but never worry, based on this definition of buffoon, Harper is not that far away from being one too!

[OnTheIce]

bootlegga wrote:

Says the CPC party spokesman, but never worry, based on this definition of buffoon, Harper is not that far away from being one too!

Most politicians are awful close to being buffoons