[Scape]

Why not use cheap soldiers instead of expensive cops for G8 security? Fear of Liberal opprobrium, says Tory minister

A billion for 3 days? What sort of idiot does that?

[Benn]

Has any host used their army to "police" the G Summits? Not that I recall. Dropping in the army for this kind of work would not be a good idea or go over well.

That said someone really has to justify this cost compared to past summits. I mean the government said the other summits, like in Pittsburgh which cost 18 million or something, had hidden costs. Really? Wow, $982 million is a lot of dough to hide. Nice try, not open the books and give us a $900 million dollar justification. I'm all for good security but something stinks.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

What a crock of shit reason. "Oh no, the mean old Liberals won't like it."

Funny how the gov't has balls when it's something WE don't want 'em to do.

[PimpBrewski123]

Ok, if there wasn't some of those '''extremists'' idiots bombing banks as a sign of protest and doing crap like that, there would be no need for all the added security.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

Quote:

Well we did, in fact, use the army in the Olympics. It's quite another thing when you start bringing the army in a civilian context, into a civilian setting.

The Olympics isn't in a civilian context in a civilian setting? Damn, I had no idea Vancouver was just one big ass military installation

[meee223]

I just can't figure out WHY people protest at every summit around the world? I always read about the protests going on, but never WHY they are protesting. Aren't the world leaders meeting to discuss the world's financial, environmental, and other issues? Well, if these problems are to be solved, world leaders NEED to discuss the issues, don't they? Do the protesters have another solution to the world's problems?? ha, ha.

[Bruce_the_vii]

meee223 wrote:

I just can't figure out WHY people protest at every summit around the world? I always read about the protests going on, but never WHY they are protesting. Aren't the world leaders meeting to discuss the world's financial, environmental, and other issues? Well, if these problems are to be solved, world leaders NEED to discuss the issues, don't they? Do the protesters have another solution to the world's problems?? ha, ha.

Good point, the meetings are to fix world problems. However I see you are a junior poster, maybe junior to the internet, and if you want to see what these people protesting think pop into Babble for half an hour. They think these leaders are supported by big business and the burgeoise middle class who have no idea what is really happening.

[martin14]

God damn the burgeoise middle class !

[2Cdo]

Bruce_the_vii wrote:

meee223 wrote:

I just can't figure out WHY people protest at every summit around the world? I always read about the protests going on, but never WHY they are protesting. Aren't the world leaders meeting to discuss the world's financial, environmental, and other issues? Well, if these problems are to be solved, world leaders NEED to discuss the issues, don't they? Do the protesters have another solution to the world's problems?? ha, ha.

Good point, the meetings are to fix world problems. However I see you are a junior poster, maybe junior to the internet, and if you want to see what these people protesting think pop into Babble for half an hour. They think these leaders are supported by big business and the burgeoise middle class who have no idea what is really happening.

Anything longer than a half hour on Babble results in significant brain atrophy.

[Curtman]

meee223 wrote:

I just can't figure out WHY people protest at every summit around the world? I always read about the protests going on, but never WHY they are protesting. Aren't the world leaders meeting to discuss the world's financial, environmental, and other issues? Well, if these problems are to be solved, world leaders NEED to discuss the issues, don't they? Do the protesters have another solution to the world's problems?? ha, ha.

I imagine they see the opportunity to speak to a large media presence. And the youth see people doing it on TV, and think its cool. So they make rap videos that look cool, and... Nobody even knows anymore, so they're just shouting for the sake of shouting I think.

The message seems to be go and break stuff, rather than any kind of opposition to what's happening at the summit.

[Bacardi4206]

I agree that a billion dollars is pretty expensive for 3 day security. However you guys are all bitching that the government did it? If you saw the G20, it was well needed. Just like it was with the G8's in other countries.

The government put safety and control as a priority. Not only were there tons of riot cops to control the protestors but there were tons of them proving security detail for hospitals, residential areas, community centers, etc. Protecting both the property and people inside them. Would this situation be any better with less security or a cheaper military alternative?

As good as our military is, if anybody forgot. Our military is a little preoccupied trying not to get shot in another country. Doubt they should be proving security detail for 3 days against protestors and limit the manpower in Afghanistan for 3 days simply for cost sake.

Believe it or not, the Government does at times know what they are doing. They well researched the groups involved in the protest and there intentions. Hell even the banks knew every step they would make, where they were meeting, what level of violence, etc. They have a chart of all the groups and give them star ratings out of 3. Higher the stars, higher expected violence. The government thought the additional security was needed and I tend to agree with them. How would this have played out if there wasn't as much security there to control them? How many more buisness's would have been targeted or even non-buisness areas. If there wasn't police to secure hospitals and other populated structures. What would have happed there? Further more, the protestors already have the media providing bias on the subject. Labeling Toronto a police state, calling our cops abusive and claiming they beat protestors and press. Would that have been better if we pulled in soldiers with assault rifles and armored vehicles?

[Mr_Canada]

I wonder if the Anarchists would ever have enough power
to cause 1 billion dollars worth of damage to the Canadian Taxpayers?

[PostFactum]

Mr_Canada wrote:

I wonder if the Anarchists would ever have enough power
to cause 1 billion dollars worth of damage to the Canadian Taxpayers?

Hope that everything was counted

[angler57]

Hard core group.
Once saw a story concerning a small group of protestors that fly from one conference to the next. They live well in up scale hotels and travel in aa a group...
Forming a core group that organizes locals to aid in protest using training films and special tactics to provoke police.
Does anyone have any information to confirm or deny this????
If true then someone is paying the tab????
Interesting concept if true!!!!

[Khar]

Mr_Canada wrote:

I wonder if the Anarchists would ever have enough power
to cause 1 billion dollars worth of damage to the Canadian Taxpayers?

When it comes down to it, I do think we have to look at what the summit was brought together to accomplish and what could be accomplished from it.

Alone, the security forces had no serious injuries or deaths, for themselves or the protestors, and that is important in and of itself. The police did manage to stop some of the damage which would likely have been much worse if they were not there, and we have to keep in mind that, as the financial center of Canada, losing even a few days due to repairs in buildings or areas being closed is a big cost which might be incurred due to damage -- Canada does do several billion dollars in earnings each day, keep in mind. While overshadowed in the media due to the extremes of the protestors by the media, those people did get a chance to share their message with the world community and, largely, without seeing tear gas, rubber bullets or other weapons thrown at them, hopefully in a safer atmosphere than if the protests had taken place all over (and if the same troublemakers had shown up there as well). We did see some people, hopefully, learn the lesson not to endanger lives by going into riot areas, causing riots, or spreading animosity between themselves and others around them. The world leaders were able to continue their summit without having to be evacuated or something similar. I am not sure what price tag could be attached to those things.

As for the summit itself, what would you consider to be the cost of a successful summit? A summit which had inequities and poverty for hundreds of millions of people on the menu, the reform of economies of our trade parties who buy our goods and resources in the discussion, and various other highly important topics which needed to be covered by the leaders involves billions, potentially trillions of dollars having its fate decided. Not to mention other beneficial things for Canada, potentially a way to showcase our economic stability in comparison to our neighbours, a way to possibly get more investment into Canada from other nations, and to get a spotlight here, in our homeland.

I wonder what the pricetag of that is?

I am not going to argue about the location or the cost otherwise (yes, I know some bad stuff happened), because to be honest the other discussions so far on the site have shown how intense the topic is getting and I don’t want to get into the center of it (not to mention I don’t feel I have the expertise to), but we do have to look at some of the positives while we are viewing the negatives as well. This was not just cost, cost, cost. There were some gains, some good things to come from this, and forgetting all of that is wilfully forgetting why we even did it in the first place and not looking at the rest of the picture. I felt, in light of some recent conversations, this needed to be said, since everything else has be iterated over a few times,and these other issues are too important to be ignoring them to obsess over the negatives surrounding the meeting.