[Akhenaten]

link

The Article wrote:

Omar Khadr's lawyer says his client is being unfairly punished by the Conservative government, which has steadfastly refused to request his repatriation from Guantanamo Bay despite court rulings ordering it to do so.

Earlier this month, the Federal Court of Appeal upheld a lower court ruling in Khadr's favour and ruled the government must move to bring Khadr home.

On Tuesday, Ottawa confirmed it will fight the decision and take the case all the way to the Supreme Court of Canada.

Khadr's Canadian lawyer Denis Edney said he is mystified by the government's continued refusal to bring Khadr home.

"Every Western country that has had a detainee in Guantanamo Bay has simply requested that their detainees come home, and that has happened," Edney told CTV News Channel.

Khadr is accused of lobbing a grenade that killed a U.S. soldier in Afghanistan in 2002, when he was 15. In seven years in Guantanamo Bay, he has not gone through a trial.

Edney said his client should should be treated as a child soldier, noting that Canada donates millions to help rehabilitate child soldiers from countries like Sierra Leone, because it considers them to be victims.

From Wiki:

Quote:

Omar Ahmed Khadr (born September 19, 1986) is the fourth child in the Canadian Khadr family. He was captured by American forces at the age of 15 following a four-hour firefight with militants in the village of Ayub Kheyl, Afghanistan.[1] He has spent six years in the Guantanamo Bay detention camps charged with war crimes and providing support to terrorism after allegedly throwing a grenade that killed a US soldier.[2]

A Canadian citizen born in Toronto,[3][4] he is the youngest prisoner held in the Guantanamo Bay detention camp by the United States and has been frequently referred to as a child soldier.[5][6] The only Western citizen remaining in Guantanamo, Khadr is unique in that Canada has refused to seek extradition or repatriation despite the urgings of Amnesty International, UNICEF, the Canadian Bar Association and other prominent organisations.[7][8][9][10] In April 2009, the Federal Court of Canada ruled that international law made it obligatory for the government to immediately demand Khadr's return. In August 2009, Ottawa said it would appeal to have him repatriated.[11]

Khadr was the only person charged under the 2006 Military Commissions Act who did not boycott the Guantanamo proceedings.[12] In February 2008, the Pentagon accidentally released documents that revealed that although Khadr was present during the firefight, there was no other evidence that he had thrown the grenade. In fact, military officials had originally reported that another of the surviving militants had thrown the grenade just before being killed.[13] Canadian authorities also determined that Khadr had little knowledge of his father's alleged activities, since "he was out playing or simply not interested".[14]

As of January 2009, 64% of Canadians supported repatriating Khadr to Canada,[15] up from 41% in June 2007.[16]

A 2009 review determined that the Canadian Security Intelligence Service failed Khadr, by refusing to acknowledge his juvenile status or his repeated claims of being abused.[14][17] It was also determined that Minister of Foreign Affairs Lawrence Cannon had lied when he claimed that Khadr had built bombs to kill Canadian soldiers.[18]

link

I think Harper is way out on this one. Further this is the second time CSIS has dropped the ball or outright got their information wrong. Last time it cost us what? $10 million? It's also the second time (the last time was a liberal gov't) that the ruling government of Canada would rather deflect blame to the US than tackle the issue themeselves.

On the other hand I'd like to see the entire Khadr family booted out of the country.

[Praxius]

"The Sins of the Father" as they say.

Regardless of what people think he did or didn't do, or what his family's background is, or who his father was.... the case is about him and it's about our own government not bothering to lift a damn finger for a canadian citizen who was a minor during the incident in question, where as every other allied nation has sought to get their citizens back, even if their own public didn't want them back.... it's the right thing to do and for our government, mainly the Conservatives, to not do a damn thing.... along with the other various stories of citizens being stuck in other nations with very little help.... it certainly leaves a void of confidence in our government actually being there when we really need them to be.

I mean, hell, Our own government is treating its own citizens the same way the US treats illegal immigrants..... ie: not worth their time.

And the fact that the government is fighting against international law and our nation's own obligations.... and the courts who are to uphold the law in the first place.... seriously, how can such a PM/Government be allowed to remain in power?

Sure what they're doing to Omar and others stuck in other countries might be pleasing to certain people here, simply due to their own biased views of the people in question.... I'd like to see their faces if and when it happens to them.

[ridenrain]

Quote:

Canadian authorities also determined that Khadr had little knowledge of his father's alleged activities, since "he was out playing or simply not interested".

Yeah.. that's why he went to training camps in Afghanistan.

Easy to see which side Wikipedia is on here.

Maybe we could try the CBC instead. http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/khadr/timeline.html

The whole family should bever have been let into the country.
Chretien never should have pulled a known terrorist supporter, Ahmed Said Khadr from Paksitan prison and trial for suspicion of funding the bombing of the Egyptian Embassy in Islamabad.

That was January 1996

If Papa-Jihad was still in prison, maybe Little Omar would have never made it to Afghanistan 6 years later.


The worst part about this is, if these were neo-nazies, radical FLQ or some other wack jobs, the province would have moved in and siezed these kids as victims of child abuse.

[HaRdLy]

Let him rot.

[Akhenaten]

My concern is that this is the second time in related issues that the Govenment of Canada doesn't want to 'govern'. The last time it was the Arar case. Now in Arar's case he had about as much connection to terrorism as you or I would if we purchased anything from a local convienence store and the owners took the money and sent it to a terrorist group. CSIS and the RCMP wrongly, incorrectly flagged him and when he crossed the border this was picked up by the US authorities. When the question came to the Liberals they (rightly) figured this: "Welp if we let him go we get brownie point from theUS for helping out...if it turns out he's innocent, we can just blame it on American over-zealousness and the Canadian people will eat it up" and we probably would've.

Now because we didn't want to govern that issue and instead left it to the US it cost us $10 million and a black eye. Arar was completely innocent.

Now we have Khadr. Now I don't argue that the guy is innocent, I simply think we're asking for trouble later on by letting the US deal with him. If it turns out they find him innocent then that'll come back to haunt us. Better to seek extradition and then try him here. That way innocent or guilty the decision will get made but we won't get sued....and besides, that's what a government is supposed to do: to take responsibility and govern. But for the second time the government is chickening out and trying to deflect responsibility to the U.S.

[Guy_Fawkes]

You want to know a sure fire way to NOT get aprehended in a foreign country, DONT VISIT WAR TORN/SEVERLY CORRUPT COUNTRIES.

[martin14]

HaRdLy wrote:

Let him rot.

Agreed.. 'nuff said.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

I still say its pointless even bothering, considering we're harbouring US army deserters. The US will just tell us to fuck off anyway so why even make an incident out of it. Co-operation goes both ways.

[ridenrain]

I can't get over the level of spin that Wikipedia is pushing on this.
Talk about revisionist history.

Quote:

..Omar went shopping, washed laundry and cooked meals.
..at a group home for young men,
..took up beading his mother's clothes as a hobby.

lol.

Quote:

Nov. 10, 2001
Abdurahman is arrested as a suspected member of al-Qaeda one day before the Taliban falls to the U.S.-supported Northern Alliance.

Sept. 11, 2001
After the Sept. 11 attacks, Osama Bin Laden and other members of Al-Qaeda leave Jalalabad, Afghanistan for the Pakistan-Afghan border. The U.S. government compiles and releases a list of suspected terrorists. Ahmed Said Khadr is on the list

2001
The Khadr family attends the wedding of Osama bin Laden's son, Muhammed.

September 9, 1999
Bin Laden attends the wedding of Zaynab Khadr, one of two Khadr daughters.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/khadr/timeline.html

[EyeBrock]

HaRdLy wrote:

Let him rot.

+2

[Praxius]

ridenrain wrote:

Yeah.. that's why he went to training camps in Afghanistan.

Got any proof to back that up?

Quote:

Easy to see which side Wikipedia is on here.

Maybe we could try the CBC instead. http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/khadr/timeline.html

So Wiki is biased, and other people claim CBC and CTV are biased.... so is CNN, Fox, ABC, NBC, BBC, in fact, apparently everybody is biased depending on who you ask.

Rather then you actually addressing what was claimed above in the wiki quote and summing it up to being biased, you attempt to counter with another report from another source many claim is biased.

Instead of finger pointing at who's biased or not, how about actually focusing on the details and refuting them.

Everything quoted in the above report from Wiki, I can personally confirm is fact from years of following the story, media reports, court records, witness statements, etc.

But until you address what you think is biased or false in the Wiki, I'll go one step further and view your CBC link:

"Khadr is released. He then encourages his four boys to attend training camps in Afghanistan."

^ No source.... just a claim and a date.

"Encourages" can mean a number of things.

"Omar Khadr is shot three times in a battle with American troops in Afghanistan. He loses the sight of one eye. He is sent to Guantanamo, Cuba, accused of killing an American soldier with a grenade."

Funny, every other source I have read, including US reports, claim he was shot twice.... in the back, not three times.

Doubt cast on Khadr's guilt
http://www.thestar.com/printArticle/553305

"A report provided by a U.S. soldier casts doubt once more on the Pentagon's assertion that Canadian captive Omar Khadr threw a grenade that killed an American soldier.

A military court was told for the first time yesterday that Khadr, then 15, was buried under rubble from a collapsed roof before he was captured, which would suggest he could not have thrown the grenade.

A witness identified as Soldier No. 2 was said to have accidentally stepped on Khadr because he did not see him under the rubble.

The soldier "thought he was standing on a `trap door' because the ground did not seem solid," stated a motion submitted by Khadr's defence lawyers.

He then "bent down to move the brush away to see what was beneath him and discovered that he was standing on a person; and that Mr. Khadr appeared to be `acting dead,'" the motion continued.

That new version of what happened in Afghanistan on July 27, 2002, conflicts with reports from other soldiers who said Khadr was sitting up and conscious when he was shot twice in the back."

^ So now we have three conflicting stories as to what actually happened... from those who actually witnessed it no less..... reasonable doubt at the very least.

I can see now why you picked that link.... it's very limited in it's information so as to skew the view of the story and already I have found multiple flaws in it's information that is given.

90% of that link you provided talks about Omar's family and his father's actions.... and very little towards this actual topic.

Once again.... the sins of the father.

You supplying a list of what his father or family did or didn't do has no relation whatsoever to Omar's actual case or his guilt in it.

Speaking of bias, that link was a mere attempt to use emotional appeal for what his family did to some how create a witch hunt effect.

It doesn't excuse the government from ignoring its responsibilities, and it does nothing to prove his actual guilt.

Quote:

The whole family should bever have been let into the country.

But they were.

Quote:

Chretien never should have pulled a known terrorist supporter, Ahmed Said Khadr from Paksitan prison and trial for suspicion of funding the bombing of the Egyptian Embassy in Islamabad.

That was January 1996

If Papa-Jihad was still in prison, maybe Little Omar would have never made it to Afghanistan 6 years later.

Hindsight 20/20 afterall.... I'm sure looking back at a lot of things we can pick and choose what should and shouldn't have been done, but it's a pointless action to take because it does nothing for what's happening now.

Maybe if we didn't let them into the country, and maybe if Jean didn't help our Omar's father in Pakistan that all of this could have been avoided.

And maybe if I had enough balls to talk to that girl I liked in high school I'd have a totally different life..... rhetorical.

So you propose that we try and correct past mistakes by making further mistakes and ignoring our government's own obligations to its citizens and international law..... to what end?

Exactly how does disobeying our own obligations and national principles towards democracy and human rights correct past mistakes?

When Democracy and the rule of Law has to have people like Bush inventing new laws and classifications to allow working around our democracies and laws in order to protect our democracies and rule of law.... then doesn't that express to the rest of the world that our Democracies and Laws arn't strong enough on their own unless we stoop to similar levels as our "Enemies" or if we remove people's rights as we see fit?

When you abandon your nations' principles, laws, obligations and democracy.... exactly what are you protecting?

What makes us better then those who threaten our way of life?

Quote:

The worst part about this is, if these were neo-nazies, radical FLQ or some other wack jobs, the province would have moved in and siezed these kids as victims of child abuse.

Chances are, you'd be correct.... yet in the same manner where Omar should be considered similar as those above you mentioned... some feel it's perfectly find to see him as guilty until proven innocent, for him to rot in Cuba, to make him the unjustified poster child for everybody's hatred for those different from them.

All the evidence against him is circumstantial and contradicting, and all come from the US..... whom have already released hundreds of people they kept locked up under suspicion that they were terrorists, whom later were found out to be no threat at all, or completely innocent of their accused crimes..... yet all faced months/years of torture, poor living conditions, threats, interrogation, beatings, and so on.

all because some people think it's ok to view them as guilty until proven innocent.

Arar has nothing to do with terrorism, yet look what happened to him. Why should anybody, you, myself, anybody have to be put through that?

If nobody tries and forces the government to actually give a damn about its citizens, both good and bad, and to follow the rule of law that it's supposed to uphold, then who's going to be there if and when it happens to you or someone you care about?

We are not above the rule of law, and neither should our government.... once that happens and the government does go beyond the laws' grip.... what happens to our rights and security?

[Benn]

Guy_Fawkes wrote:

You want to know a sure fire way to NOT get aprehended in a foreign country, DONT VISIT WAR TORN/SEVERLY CORRUPT COUNTRIES.

Wasn't he also trowing or with people throwing hand grenades at US soldiers? IF so might want to make it DONT VISIT WAR TORN/SEVERELY CORRUPT COUNTRIES and throw bombs at soldiers"

[ridenrain]

Arar was found not guilty, not innocent but let's leave Arar out of this.


The reason my clips focussed on the Khadr family is because the Wiki clip did and that's what I found so objectionable.

What is so telling is none of this was an issue before the Harper government took over.

[Akhenaten]

Quote:

Arar was found not guilty, not innocent but let's leave Arar out of this.

He was found neither as far as I know, unless you're listening to the Syrians. The government of Canada was found to be delinquent in it's duties and the RCMP/CSIS were found to be liars, liars, with their pants on fires.

[leewgrant]

EyeBrock wrote:

HaRdLy wrote:

Let him rot.

+2

Good politics by Harper. It'll keep the pot boiling on the issue in the event Iggy pulls the plug on Parliament. The Liberals will be identified as the party wanting to repatriate a terrorist/murderer.