[DevilsAdvocate]

So apparently Grewal was at the airport asking complete strangers to take the package on the flight to Ottawa. The package contained the complete and unedited tapes.



Too bad nobody took him up on the offer. I'm sure the newspapers would have paid a nice sum of money to get their hands on the uncensored, unaltered tapes and get the WHOLE story.

The Conservatives counter saying that complete strangers walked up to him and OFFERED to take the package to Ottawa for him. They get funnier by the hour. Modern day equivelant of the Rhinocerous party.

[ridenrain]

This is absolute partisan rubbish, intended to scare Canadians into shooting the messenger instead of fixing the problem.
If Wes Cragg, chairman of the watchdog's Canadian chapter was anything more than a puppet, he would have already been screaming bloody blue murder with the following events. I'll try to keep to international events.

In 1993, Jean Chretien cancelled the contract with Montreal-based Paramax Systems Ltd. and EHI to supply forty-three new EH-101 model helicopters.
"I'll take one piece of paper, I'll take my pen, I will write zero helicopters, Chretien. That will be it, and I will not lose one minute of sleep over it. "
Prime Minister, Jean Chretien, 1993 Election Campaign. That cavalier stroke with a pen cost Canadians $500 million dollars.
ref.

In 1994, Liberal Defence Minister Doug Young ordered the Somalia inquiry closed, despite ½ years and 25 million dollars was spent on the investigation without any conclusion or resolution.
ref.

In 1997, The APEC inquiry had the Prime Minister order the RCMP to bully Canadians so they didn't embarrass former Indonesian President Suharto.
The subsequent investigation of the 40 public complaints was stalled because the PM's office would not testify, despite being mentioned in RCMP radio and telephone transcripts.
ref.


In 2002, while on vacation in New York, Canadian Citizen Maher Arar is grabbed by US officials and sent to Syria to be tortured because the RCMP believed he had links to al-Qaida. Further investigation yields no proof and the investigation is being stone walled over concerns of National Security.
ref.


In 2005, the Washington Post writes: For Canada's Police Agencies, 'A Multidimensional Failure'. The Air India trial cost $130 Million and took 233-days and w as an international joke.
]ref.


In 2005, Asia pacific news wrote Strong ties bind Liberals to U.N. corruption scandal. Between 1996 & 2003, former Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein is alleged to have skimmed US$21.3 billion (C$27 billion) from a UN humanitarian-aid program. Implicated in this event is Canadian serial entrepreneur Maurice Strong, our prime minister's key advisor since the 1960s.
ref.


In 2004, Canadians donated More than $400 Million dollars to aid tsunami victims. So far, only a fraction of this money has helped tsunami victims, and I fear most has gone to help Canadian Politician Victims.

To this list we can add many other Liberal problems, like the Quebec problem, unsettled Indian claims and a legacy of abuse, an in-effective justice industry coupled weak record of punishment, an un-willingness to fund the Canadian military to do it's job and fulfill it's UN & NATO commitments, and the enormous rift between Canadians and their government over same sex marriages. One MP taping another MP,

Canada need a change of government, not just a change in government.

[ridenrain]

I guess Wes Cragg partially agrees with me because they changed the headline.

[BurytheNDPforgood]

So let me get this straight...our reputation is getting hurt because of an opposition backbencher.

This is just so typical. Of course Grewal is a slimy little cheating, untrustworthy nob.

But there is one of him and three of Dosanjh, Murphy and Martin. And they are in the party in power.

Once again all the attention is deflected.

Grewal deserves what he gets in the media, etc. But there is simply no balance in this country.

Example....last night on CBC (yet again!)...Terry Milewski is again in Grewal's riding interviewing everyone.

Why did this not happen in Belinda or Ujjal's riding.

It is so frustrating to watch!

[MAPLELEAVES]

When Belinda jump ship, I thought the CBC did go to New Market and asked people in their riding. I don't remember the CBC journalist but they were right infront of some Magna sign. I could be mistaken though.

But you are right the CBC has a very Liberal bias. I remember Peter Mansbridge was interviewing Harper, I couldn't believe how hard he pushing Harper.

[BurytheNDPforgood]

It's interesting...because sometimes it's just blatant and sometimes it's very, very subtle...but the underlying current is always the same.

Watching the coverage on the same sex marriage issue will be interesting.

[Zipperfish]

Quote:

In 2002, while on vacation in New York, Canadian Citizen Maher Arar is grabbed by US officials and sent to Syria to be tortured because the RCMP believed he had links to al-Qaida. Further investigation yields no proof and the investigation is being stone walled over concerns of National Security.

This claim is highly dubious. Perhaps the inquriy will shed some light on the incident, but it seems the cockroaches involved scurry for cover as soon as the light goes on. Arar was not "on vacation" in New York, and we don't reallly know why he was rendered to Syria.

Other than that, your points are well-taken. In Canada we do not punish people for these types of crimes, and therefore they predictably proliferate. This Dosanhj/Grewal matter is just the latest in a pattern of corruption that has been rampant in Parliament for years. This latest is almost a good thing, becasue it does not devidei along partisna lines -- both the Conservatives and the Liberals look equally slimy, so the reaction is general disgust not at one party but with the whole system. That is a step in the right direction.

[ridenrain]

Good that someone else is picking up on this. The headlines have only Grewal but nothing about Prime Minister's chief of Tim Murphy and top Martin aide and Health Minister Ujjal Dosanjh. This is typical partisan journalism because the headline is the only thing too many Canadians read. This is the power of Liberal brand media. It's the classic "Admit Nothing, Deny Everything, Make Counter-Accusations"

When Belinda Stronach was publicly accepting compliments, her constituents just received her last Conservative newsletters in the mail.
Did that make news?

Zipperfish: I've not been following the Maher Arar case closely so I grabbed this reference as a general summary. You are right that without an effective investigation, we cannot know the truth but it also sounds like we are not getting a effective and open investigation. Considering our record of investigations & trials, there is little hope.

[canucker]

Grewal allegedly made citizenship deal

[ambivalent]

I still want to hear how the conversations started - before the taping.

Was it a case of "what will you offer me to switch?" Or "we will offer you something if you come over."

Frankly, it could go either way, because, well, they're politicians and therefore closely related to things you find at the bottom of a swamp, but it seems a little weird that if that is a later call (second, third, what have you - as the fact he had enough time to realize he needed to be taping it suggests), why don't they offer something tangible? I mean, if I were going to bribe you, I'd hope I'd have the common sense to have a little more than, "well, we can't discuss any specific offerings, but if you do what I want, THEN we can talk about it!"

Honestly, would YOU go for that?

And I don't know that that instinctive response is really born of the fact that I loathe the Reform Party just that extra inch more than I loathe the Liberals.

It's sort of like choosing between the Mafia and the Crips (not that I know which would be which in that analogy).

[Diffident_Albertan]

Little law lesson folks.

Taping someone is NOT and I repeat is NOT illegal. As long as one party if aware of the taping, it is not illegal.

[Diffident_Albertan]

MAPLELEAVES wrote:

When Belinda jump ship, I thought the CBC did go to New Market and asked people in their riding. I don't remember the CBC journalist but they were right infront of some Magna sign. I could be mistaken though.

But you are right the CBC has a very Liberal bias. I remember Peter Mansbridge was interviewing Harper, I couldn't believe how hard he pushing Harper.

Mansbridge is hard on Harper, because he's gay. I think it's probably that simple. Doesn't like what Harper stands for.

[BurytheNDPforgood]

The CBC is a disgrace. It is unbelievable how slanted they are towards the Libs.

It sure is fun watching the Libs get nervous about all these "hot button" issues though. The Health decision today....the uncertainty within their own party about the gay marriage vote.

I love it.

Again, the Tories should make the same sex bill an "official" confidence vote on the Govt. After all, the govt. are the almighty who have decided that, hey, you know, we have an overall majority of 1 (the speaker) and come hell or high water, we're going to get this bill through.

And they have got their Whips enforcing it.

I predict that at least 5 Libs will either abstain from the vote, or leave the caucus before the vote and abstain. They will not want to vote against the govt. but will not be able to vote for the bill.

Then we'll see what kind of media spin they can put on that.

Time is running out

[Rev_Blair]

Quote:

Again, the Tories should make the same sex bill an "official" confidence vote on the Govt. After all, the govt. are the almighty who have decided that, hey, you know, we have an overall majority of 1 (the speaker) and come hell or high water, we're going to get this bill through.

First of all there are no Tories anymore. The name suggests some dignity and honour and the Harperites have neither.

Second of all, the opposition doesn't get to decide what is a confidence vote and what isn't. Besides, during the last election Harper said that the only thing he would consider a confidence vote if he won (fat chance) a minority would be a money bill.

Third of all, the Liberals, BQ, and NDP all support the SSM bill, so the homophobes would lose on that anyway.

[BurytheNDPforgood]

Quote:

Second of all, the opposition doesn't get to decide what is a confidence vote and what isn't.

Actually, that is the way it is supposed to work, albeit more on an impromptu basis eg. 6 successive votes in May to topple the Govt. Only, in Canada, a minority government can decide when an official vote takes place. Unprecedented stuff. Simply arrogant.

[/quote]Third of all, the Liberals, BQ, and NDP all support the SSM bill, so the homophobes would lose on that anyway [quote]

We'll see