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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:36 pm
 


So you're saying exactly what I said that you were going to say, so basically you just backed my entire post, right on.

P.S : Although you say it but I don't think your brain totally comprehends it. So repeat after me, criticism of Israel does not equate to Anti semitism. Good boy, now run along and finish your assignments.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:50 pm
 


P.P.S : I just remembered watching this a long time back but since you brought it up is relevant to the subject so looked it up, and before you go off on a tangent and write if off and rethoric propaganda, its an episode of Dispatch the same people who brought you Undercover Mosque.

P.P.P.S : Sorry for pulling a fiddly on you 8O



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:56 pm
 


desertdude desertdude:
Although you say it but I don't think your brain totally comprehends it. So repeat after me, criticism of Israel does not equate to Anti semitism. Good boy, now run along and finish your assignments.


Try this:

http://www.amazon.ca/How-Win-Friends-In ... 0671027034


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:02 pm
 


desertdude desertdude:
So you're saying exactly what I said that you were going to say, so basically you just backed my entire post, right on.

P.S : Although you say it but I don't think your brain totally comprehends it. So repeat after me, criticism of Israel does not equate to Anti semitism. Good boy, now run along and finish your assignments.


Uh...what? This statement...

$1:
You folk have nothing to worry about, its most probably an all expense paid trip by the Israelis to ensure more blind obedience of the Canadian govt.


is antisemitism. It's along the same lines of how the Jews control the banks and the media and such. Now, I was going to make a sarcastic remark about it, but you seem to want to defend your statement, including attacking me to try to defend yourself, fine.

You think that, by saying antisemitic statements, you're just being anti-Israel. You're not. There are plenty of anti-Israel posters on this site who don't collapse into antisemitic bullshit, but you often do. That's the distinction. There is a huge difference between finding this delegation too large, like Curt, and talking about how it'll probably be paid by the Israelis to further Canada's "blind obedience" to Israel.

You think I somehow don't like you talking about Israel because you're a Muslim. You're wrong. You being a Muslim makes absolutely no difference to me. I hold you to the same standard as any other poster, who I'm more than happy to engage in any discussion of Israel with, as long as they don't collapse into antisemitic bullshit. I'm pro-Israel. Not exactly news to everyone, and I'm not sure how that makes me blind to Israel's issues and faults. I'm also pro-Canada and pro-US, and I'm not blind to their faults either.

So, say it with me: "Being anti-Israel does not justify antisemitism." But, since you think it's alright, anti-Israel groups are tarnished by being called antisemitic, because people like you have a bad tendency to use antisemitic comments against Israel.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:08 pm
 


OK so my choice of words in my initial post were a bit more sarcastic than your pro Israel stomach could handle and sent you into a tail spin, but look into the Dispatch episode I posted, the lobbies certainly do have a great deal of influence and clout with influential political personnel and thats just the UK, US is probably 10 times stronger.

And whats wrong with calling a spade a spade, Canada current govt has blindly supported Israel till date, wouldn't be too far a stretch of imagination to see Israel rewarding such stiff support specially when even its closet allies are starting to show signs of stress fractures. Although it seems like in this case they havent and poor you are actually paying for this trip from your tax dollars. But Im sure you don't mind since your such a friend of Israel.

You can writhe and froth all you want over your alleged anti semitism , but amigo a spade is still a spade.

P.S : Another lesson Israel is also not a synonym for Jew, Jews or Judaism, so keep you antisemitism in you pants till then to use it in another thread to close down any argument when anyone else again tries to say something negative about Israel or its policies.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:15 pm
 


desertdude desertdude:
OK so my choice of words in my initial post were a bit more sarcastic


And I was sarcastic in return over how Israel can afford more than just the US government.

$1:
than your pro Israel stomach could handle and sent you into a tail spin,


Wait, I went into a tailspin? You're the one who wrote two and a half paragraphs saying I got
you you:
twist in your panties everytime someone say something about your favourtist and bestest place on the planet Israel
and saying how I need real world experience and bullshit like this. I did not call you antisemitic in my first post in this topic. I know why you got that impression though, because you know that what you said is antisemitism, and not criticism of Israel. Your criticism of Israel only came after my sarcastic response to you, over pro-Israel lobbying.

$1:
but look into the Dispatch episode I posted, the lobbies certainly do have a great deal of influence and clout with influential political personnel and thats just the UK, US is probably 10 times stronger.


If you were trying to make a point about how pro-Israel groups uses lobbying organizations to help gain support in foreign countries, all I have to say is...so what? Organizations of all political ideologies and causes use lobbying in just about every country. Climate change proponents and skeptics, major corporations, and major governments do it too. This isn't a big surprise to anybody.

Hell, Canada has an Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying to regulate lobbying in this country, and no doubt, if I cared to dig enough, that the Canadian government has supported pro-Keystone XL lobby groups in the United States. All your insults about me needing "get out of school" and other bullshit like that, and yet, you think I'll be surprised by the existence of AIPAC?

$1:
And whats wrong with calling a spade a spade, Canada current govt has blindly supported Israel till date, wouldn't be too far a stretch of imagination to see Israel rewarding such stiff support specially when even its closet allies are starting to show signs of stress fractures. Although it seems like in this case they havent and poor you are actually paying for this trip from your tax dollars. But Im sure you don't mind since your such a friend of Israel.


Oh shit, Prime Minister Harper uses taxpayer dollars for an official visit to a foreign country! I mean, he's never done this for any other country other than Israel! Nope, all Canadian government officials, like the Governor General, only use their own money when they go on trips abroad. (since you took issue with the rolling eye smiley, this was also utter sarcasm)

Jesus Christ, I should be outraged by this? The delegation is large, but it's also the first visit by the Prime Minister to Israel, in an effort to increase economic, and cultural cooperation and exchange. Just as an example, the Governor General's visit back in 2005 to Iceland, Finland, and Russia, contained dozens in their delegation.

http://archive.gg.ca/media/doc.asp?lang=e&DocID=4017

And from what I can tell, the list doesn't contain actual politicians, like ministers, or the support staff of the Governor General.

After all my schooling and assignments and such, I entered the real world, and realized that politicians of all ideologies, all parties, and all nationalities will do things like this. Is the delegation excessive? Sure, it could certainly be argued, but with my "real world" knowledge, I also realize that it'll keep on happening, and they'll use taxpayer dollars for it. This isn't unique to Harper and Israel.

The best part is? After Israel, he goes to Jordan, most likely with the same extensive list of various leaders of Canadian business and politics. Again, this is par the course for Canadian politics, for better or worse.


$1:
You can writhe and froth all you want over your alleged anti semitism , but amigo a spade is still a spade.


You're right. Your antisemitic remarks are still antisemitic, no matter how many posts you attempt to try to excuse your bullshit. Your personal attacks on me, your bringing up of pro-lobbying groups, and everything else in this topic won't change that, no matter how much you keep trying otherwise.

$1:
P.S : Another lesson Israel is also not a synonym for Jew, Jews or Judaism, so keep you antisemitism in you pants till then to use it in another thread to close down any argument when anyone else again tries to say something negative about Israel or its policies.


See, I'm able to choke down your "arguments" rather easily. So far, after your antisemitic remark, I'll paraphrase your arguments. "Lobbyists bad. Harper delegation too big and uses taxpayer dollars." I countered, and yet, you're still left with your antisemitic statement.

Again, be negative about Israel and policies all you like, but try to use some brain power, instead of relying on the same old, tired "points" about how Israel controls foreign politicians, because they're pro-Israel, and thus "blind" to any issues with Israel.

You want to talk about Israeli settlements in the West Bank? Sure! Go ahead! You want to talk about how Israel military controls the West Bank too? Have fun! But if you think I'll let some one sided circle jerk take part against Israel, like if the Palestinians, or the Arab states, are just innocent victims in the conflict, then I'll call bullshit.

Once again, if you really want to discuss Israel, then do it. If you're going to use sarcastic, antisemitic remarks, and then act all defensive once you're called out on it, I'll call bullshit.

Again, acting as if Israel somehow controls foreign governments/politicians with their wealth, is antisemitism. More importantly, you're not even inviting debate. If you want to talk about the influence of pro-Israel lobby groups, have fun, but don't act like that's what you did in your original post.

P.S. On top of this, why do you think I care if you're Muslim, or not? I don't think I've ever insulted your religious belief, or somehow stated that you being Muslim means you don't have a legitimate opinion on Israel. It's like saying I can't have an opinion on Star Wars since I'm a huge fan of Star Trek. It's silly. If I have done this, I apologize, although I do not believe I have.

THAT BEING SAID. Don't think you can discredit my opinion just because I'm pro-Israel, something you seemingly keep trying to do in this topic. I'm pro-Israel, you're not. My opinion is no less valid than yours. If you have an issue with my pro-Israel opinion, then challenge me on some point. So far, beyond your original, antisemitic post, I haven't insulted your religious beliefs, nor stated that your opinion is invalid because you're anti-Israel. You are trying my patience, however. Admit you were crossing a line with your original post, and then we can have a debate. Continue to attempt to whitewash your statement, by acting like it wasn't antisemitic, or insulting me, then have a good night.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:26 pm
 


Well then a good night to you too Commander.

P.S : Its still called a Spade ;)


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:04 pm
 


So, Curt, how does this delegation somehow stand out to other, incredibly large delegations that had their trips paid for by the Canadian taxpayer?

This isn't exactly new, or unique.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:44 pm
 


I do wonder at the frothing over this particular trip. Did the same people get frothy over Chretien's trip to China with 600 people. Actually the same amount Obama took with him to Israel.

Why is it that only PM Harper is taken to task for what is standard procedure in all gov't.





PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:21 pm
 


commanderkai commanderkai:
Uh...what? This statement...

desertdude desertdude:
You folk have nothing to worry about, its most probably an all expense paid trip by the Israelis to ensure more blind obedience of the Canadian govt.


is antisemitism. It's along the same lines of how the Jews control the banks and the media and such. Now, I was going to make a sarcastic remark about it, but you seem to want to defend your statement, including attacking me to try to defend yourself, fine.


How is that antisemetic? As a Canadian, my prime minster has sworn allegiance to a foreign nation and that does bother me.



commanderkai commanderkai:
So, Curt, how does this delegation somehow stand out to other, incredibly large delegations that had their trips paid for by the Canadian taxpayer?

This isn't exactly new, or unique.


It's mostly the media that is amazed by the enormity..


$1:
OP Article:
what is easily the largest delegation he has ever had for an overseas trip.


$1:
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/201 ... gly-manic/
The size of the group raises eyebrows. It is roughly double the size of the Israeli Knesset. In per capita terms, it is the equivalent of Harper bringing a 10,000-person entourage to the United States — or a 42,000-person entourage to China.


$1:
http://o.canada.com/news/its-the-re-election-canadas-israeli-delegation-looks-political-opposition-says/
Diamant was part of a much smaller delegation that accompanied then-prime minister Jean Chretien to Israel in 2000.

“It was I believe 10, made up of representatives of senior advocacy organizations,” he said.



It's sort of unique it seems. I'm not surprised or concerned about the size of his entourage if that's what you're getting at.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:26 pm
 


redhatmamma redhatmamma:
As PM SH said, why should he go out of the way to criticize Israel while visiting. Should he criticize Palestine and Hamas while he's there too, or is it only Israel he should criticize.


Criticize the fuck out of all of them. They all deserve it.





PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:38 pm
 


andyt andyt:
redhatmamma redhatmamma:
As PM SH said, why should he go out of the way to criticize Israel while visiting. Should he criticize Palestine and Hamas while he's there too, or is it only Israel he should criticize.


Criticize the fuck out of all of them. They all deserve it.


He could do it there, he could do it here, he could do it in some 3rd location. The Americans have no problem saying settlements are an impasse to peace. He gives speaches about Canada being a staunch and unwavering ally, and Israel being the pinnacle of democracy, but ignores the aggressive border expanding settlements.

Bad management is having a principled stance that changes depending on what day of the week it is, and injecting Canada into this quagmire.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:21 pm
 


Curtman Curtman:
commanderkai commanderkai:
Uh...what? This statement...

desertdude desertdude:
You folk have nothing to worry about, its most probably an all expense paid trip by the Israelis to ensure more blind obedience of the Canadian govt.


is antisemitism. It's along the same lines of how the Jews control the banks and the media and such. Now, I was going to make a sarcastic remark about it, but you seem to want to defend your statement, including attacking me to try to defend yourself, fine.


How is that antisemetic? As a Canadian, my prime minster has sworn allegiance to a foreign nation and that does bother me.


Implying that Israel controls foreign governments is the same sort of antisemitic bullshit about how the Jews control the banks, the media, so on, so forth. More importantly, in response to this statement, I made a sarcastic remark about how many foreign countries that Israel, a population of 8 million, can control. Remarking on how it's antisemitic came from desertdude himself, when he went on a tirade of personal insults and denying it was antisemitic, even though I didn't accuse him initially.

And Jesus Christ, Prime Minister Harper has not sworn allegiance to a foreign nation. I must have missed Prime Minister Harper's Israeli citizenship ceremony. A shift in foreign relations between nations doesn't change much, or did former Prime Minister Trudeau swear allegiance to the People's Republic of China in 1968 when he reestablished diplomatic relations.





PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:34 pm
 


commanderkai commanderkai:
Curtman Curtman:
commanderkai commanderkai:
Uh...what? This statement...

"You folk have nothing to worry about, its most probably an all expense paid trip by the Israelis to ensure more blind obedience of the Canadian govt."

is antisemitism. It's along the same lines of how the Jews control the banks and the media and such. Now, I was going to make a sarcastic remark about it, but you seem to want to defend your statement, including attacking me to try to defend yourself, fine.


How is that antisemetic? As a Canadian, my prime minster has sworn allegiance to a foreign nation and that does bother me.


Implying that Israel controls foreign governments is the same sort of antisemitic bullshit about how the Jews control the banks, the media, so on, so forth. More importantly, in response to this statement, I made a sarcastic remark about how many foreign countries that Israel, a population of 8 million, can control. Remarking on how it's antisemitic came from desertdude himself, when he went on a tirade of personal insults and denying it was antisemitic, even though I didn't accuse him initially.


This is 100% pure craziness, and a big part of the reason we should stay out of this mess. Israel is a state, Judaism is a religion. As much as you and our prime minister would like everyone to believe otherwise, people can criticize the state of Israel without hating Jews.

Settlements must stop. The 1967 border is recognized by Canada officially. It's not asking too much to ask clarification on that from our Prime Minister, but he won't answer the question here or there.

commanderkai commanderkai:
And Jesus Christ, Prime Minister Harper has not sworn allegiance to a foreign nation. I must have missed Prime Minister Harper's Israeli citizenship ceremony. A shift in foreign relations between nations doesn't change much, or did former Prime Minister Trudeau swear allegiance to the People's Republic of China in 1968 when he reestablished diplomatic relations.


What else could "staunch and unwavering ally" mean? We will support you no matter what. Jesus is a different religion.

News flash:

People have been launching into tirades of personal insults on this and every other forum in every topic imaginable for a long long long time. He did not call you a pedophile, so it's perfectly acceptable here. Don't bother complaining about it.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:22 am
 


My beef with supporting Israel is that 'the free world' decided to displace people who had been living in a place for ages so that a bunch of rich Israelis could have a 'homeland'. So, perhaps you have lived in a home for 3 generations and because some group decides that another group should have a homeland, you get moved out and someone else gets your house.

It reminds me of the what guy digging in the mud (Dennis) said in The Quest For The Holy Grail:
"Look, strange women lying on their backs in ponds handing out
swords ... that's no basis for a system of government. Supreme
executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from
some farcical aquatic ceremony.
You can't expect to wield supreme executive power
just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!
I mean, if I went around saying I was an Emperor because some
moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, people would
put me away!"


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