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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 3:24 pm
 


Why bother apologizing? You point out the well publicized and substantiated flaws and crimes of the Donald Douche and suddenly they want to get personal.


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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 3:46 pm
 


ShepherdsDog wrote:
Why bother apologizing? You point out the well publicized and substantiated flaws and crimes of the Donald Douche and suddenly they want to get personal.


Well publicized, yes. Substantiated? Not so much.

us-politics-f18/vox-democrats-are-falling-for-fake-news-about-russia-t119228.html


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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 3:57 pm
 


Most of my hatred for Trump came from the revelations of how he conducted his business and personal life prior to running for president, a record of atrocious boorishness and scumbag-grade criminality that your side either deliberately chose to ignore or (perversely) celebrates as the hilarious antics of what you guys think a successful "tough guy" is like. How he behaved in the campaign and the election only confirmed to me that Trump is nothing but a vicious and vile gutter-dwelling son of a bitch. He's actively evil, and everything he's done in life proves it.

You're free to turn your back on all of that if you think the other side is a greater threat. Don't ever expect me though to set aside my morals or ethics or lifelong hatred of bullies who behave that way as easily as you have.


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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 4:14 pm
 


Thanos wrote:
He's actively evil, and everything he's done in life proves it.


You're not paying attention.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/offwhitepa ... 4b135d2fc8

Quote:
Donald Trump And The Wollman Rinking of American Politics

We best understand the world through compelling narratives. Here’s one that helps us process the phenomenon known as Trump for President:

“Once upon a time there was an ice skating rink in Central Park that could no longer make ice. No one could figure out how to fix the skating rink. Years went by and millions of dollars were spent and still no ice. One day a white knight wearing a bright red tie showed up and said: ' Let there be ice!’ Four months later there was ice. When asked by the press why the people had been unable to fix the rink themselves the knight said 'they’re very nice people and I like them very much but they're all idiots!' And everyone lived happily ever after.”

Pretty much the true story of the Wollman Skating Rink fiasco. You can even check the New York Times. On May 31, 1986 Donald Trump said in an interview with the Times, "I don't want my name attached to losers. So far the Wollman Rink has been one of the great losers. I'll make it a winner.'' Shortly after Trump decided to slap his name on Wollman Rink, if you read the fine print. Now, 30 years later, Wollman Rink is a winner and the Trump name is still associated with it. Just check the Wollman Skating Rink website. There it is! The famous, or, according to some, infamous TRUMP red logo.

The Wollman Rink incident underrscores the fascinating impact that Donald Trump is making on the political landscape and the American psyche irrespective of the outcome of the presidential campaign. Wollman Skating Rink today is one of the most iconic amenities for New Yorkers and tourists located in Central Park just a stone’s throw north of the Plaza Hotel (which was once owned by Donald Trump).

Wollman Rink is currently operated by the Trump organization, and is today known as the Trump Skating Rink. Donald Trump operated the rink from 1987 to 1991.

The bright red Trump logo still adorns the Wollman Skating Rink website.

Having fallen into utter disrepair during the New York City fiscal crisis, unable to make ice, the city’s Parks Department embarked on a total refurbishment of the facility in 1980, estimating it would take two years to complete. After six years and having flushed $13 million down the drain, the city announced they would have to start all over again and it would another two years to complete. Wollman Rink had quite visibly failed. The Wollman Rink fiasco amplified the public perception of the general incompetence of government and their inability to complete even the simplest projects.

Enter the Donald. In late May of 1986, the 39-year-old Trump made an offer to Mayor Ed Koch. Trump would step in and take over the construction and operation of the project for no profit and have it up and running in time for the holiday season.

Koch tried mightily and quite sneakily tried to reject Trump’s offer. A very public Trump-Koch feud ensued; Donald ultimately prevailed taking on the responsibility to finish the rink in less than six months for no more than $3 million. The city politicos could only hope that when Donald failed it would divert attention from their own incompetence.

Instead of failing, Trump finished the job in just four months at a final cost 25% below the budget. It wasn’t rocket science according to Trump. It was common sense and “management.” But the incident also demonstrated Trump’s mastery and command of public relations and how to attract massive amounts of free press.


Trump learned that the press likes drama and extremes--positive or negative--and was hungry for every morsel about this otherwise insignificant project. Any milestone of the project’s progress resulted in press conferences often with ceremony, pomp and circumstance, and frequently, celebrity-filled. When concrete was laid: press conference. Construction complete: press conference. The first ice: press conference. The Grand Opening included Dick Button, Peggy Fleming and Scott Hamilton to name a few. Everything became an event and free promotion. City officials stopped attending press conference because it was actually becoming an embarrassment. The rink which had been a perpetual money loser started making money immediately which Trump donated to charity.

Trump’s thought process, approach and management style for the Wollman problem are quite accurately laid out in a short and rather entertaining chapter in his The Art of the Deal. But are the skills used in fixing a failed city project transferable to fixing a broken political system?

Maybe more than people think. In his own style, using only earned media, Trump has dominated the nation's entire political agenda and its airwaves, created a new language of bluntness, upended political correctness (tone be damned), freely criticized mainstream media and brought life to a moribund citizenry even if creating a bit of acrimony and anger along the way.


Regardless of the 2016 presidential outcome, Trump might have opened the door for a whole new generation of authentic politicians and non-politicians who can and must learn the skills to use earned media effectively rather than spend most of their time fundraising and having to beg and plead for unrealistic amounts of money.

Conventional wisdom suggests it takes each candidate about $1 billion to run for president with well over half going to ads on television, print and digital. Trump is about to shatter that conventional wisdom; he might end up spending nothing for media. He is the media. In doing so he might have broken the back of special interests, lobbyists, PACs and Super PACs and a small group of big donors who for too long have been setting our political and legislative agenda.


The emerging sentiment from a growing chorus of astute political observers and just regular folks is instructive. While they might not want Donald Trump as their president, they are unexpectedly delighted he is running (even if they can barely stomach his policies or even watching him). He is shaking up the dysfunctional political system in an almost unimaginable manner in an unfathomable timeframe. He has done in a few months what many would think would take years if not generations. Kind of like Wollman Rink. Even if he is the bacteria necessary to make yogurt, he is very effective bacteria.

Trump could be that super-anomaly who is creating a crisis in American politics--one which will we be forced to deal with. Trump’s antics, showmanship, intelligence and/or crassness is making us fundamentally rethink our collective description of political reality. When the dust settles we might end up with a new paradigm on how to best fix our problems—not just the complex problems but more importantly the plethora of everyday, not-so-complex problems that the incessant dysfunction and sclerosis of American politics has brought to a screeching halt. The world is a dangerous place with problems left and right. But we do need to ask ourselves how to best deal with the less dangerous world filled with Wollman Rinks. Maybe if we can start to solve small problems people will start believing we can solve big ones.


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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 5:01 pm
 


martin14 wrote:

it's no wonder Jared doesn't post that much anymore, nor does he even see the value
in posting in his own threads, because Thanos turns everything he touches into
complete and utter shit.

Martin is out.


...Wow.

I never expected the thread to blow up like this.

For one thing, the reason I don't post that much anymore is in part due to my probably biting off more than I can chew in terms of commitments (incl. a Twitter and Facebook account, my weekly "blog tours", researching an article for Canada 150, trying to get through a new book on Pierre Trudeau's legacy, trying to get caught up on my Canadian history and Literary Review readings, writing multiple fiction projects, trying to decide whether to run in this fall's municipal elections...yeah) and downtime to keep myself sane in between.

Also, I have to admit that a lot of the topics discussed here are shifting to U.S. politics and criticism of social justice activism, which is of less interest to me than Canadian issues.

And I didn't respond to this thread yet because I just posted it last night, and I only got home from work about a half-hour ago.

Now that I am, though...

*cracks knuckles*

martin14 wrote:
How Do Political Parties Catch Fire?


Catch fire and move forward, sparking interest from voters ?

Or catch fire and burn themselves to a crisp ?


Jared, most of the examples you gave are left wing parties, which were created when the default
left wing party, the Liberals, just weren't Liberal enough. Which is fine, a fractured Left is just fine for me.

However, when the Right splits, it only creates troubles, because the right vote in Canada isn't strong enough to cope with being fractured.
The Reform Party created lots of problems before they were eventually folded back into the default right, the Conservatives.

If Wildrose and the PCs are going to merge, then they have a chance to regain power.
If they stay split, they can forget it.


The right wing in Canada needs to stay together, and the leaders of those parties need to respond to the needs of their members for policy.
Without it, they lose.


Not quite-the Reform Alliance played a critical role in changing the Canadian political conversation, making "deficit" a dirty word, and generally shifting the overall mood of things to the right.

And the Parti Quebecois didn't get elected so much because the Quebec Liberals weren't liberal enough, but more because Quebecers had enough of Robert Bourassa's corruption. And the Bloc only came about because Pierre Trudeau broke his 1980 referendum promises and Brian Mulroney fucked up Meech Lake.

The Saskatchewan Party came about because the NDP were the only major party still standing in that province after its PC and Liberal parties blew up.

The Socreds and United Farmers came about because people were disillusioned by the Liberal and Conservative parties, so conservatives could benefit from it too.

And as for the Wildrose Alliance, it's notable that the PCs still managed to get re-elected even with the Wildrose nipping at their heels. Even in the last Alberta election, Jim Prentice's tone-deaf campaign, the fact that the Wildrose had been kneecapped by the then-recent floor crossings and Rachel Notley's skilled campaign all contributed. Simply having two conservative parties did not change everything by itself.


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