[OnTheIce]

bootlegga wrote:

OnTheIce wrote:

I thought Stephen Harper was "un-Canadian"?

Weren't you just bitching the other day about Liberals dredging up Harper's past?

Pot meet kettle...

I commented how poor the political landscape is today, that video is a sample of what's out there, on both sides of the fence.

Yes, the Liberals are digging up old news on Harper which is part of the game...I just thought the stuff they were digging up was old and losing traction. Surely there's some newer stuff they could find that would catch the attention of our lazy electorate.

[Lemmy]

OnTheIce wrote:

Did I make the video? No.

Did you listen to it either?

OnTheIce wrote:

The Liberals have a LONG history of Anti-American comments and feelings....from claiming Harper was GWB's buddy to having an MP stomp on a Bush doll. If the shoe was on the other foot, reaction would be no different.

What Iggy is doing in that video is exactly the same as if, say, ShepherdsDog were talking about changes that would improve Taiwan or Martin14 discussing ways to improve Italy. As residents, they have a stake in the way their de facto countries are. Since they've chosen to live their lives there, they are ABSOLUTELY justified in commenting exactly as Iggy has about the USA. That doesn't make them less Canadian. It makes them more Taiwanese/Italian, it makes them more worldly, but not less Canadian.

BartSimpson wrote:

There are no 'defacto' Americans. Just the same as I am sometimes a resident of Canada but I for damn sure am not and have never been a Canadian just because I get some of my mail in Victoria.

There absolutely are de facto Americans. A permanent resident is something very different from a visitor. When you LIVE in America, you are living as an American lives. I call that "de facto".

[OnTheIce]

Lemmy wrote:

Did you listen to it either?

Lemmy wrote:

What Iggy is doing in that video is exactly the same as if, say, ShepherdsDog were talking about changes that would improve Taiwan or Martin14 discussing ways to improve Italy. As residents, they have a stake in the way their de facto countries are. Since they've chosen to live their lives there, they are ABSOLUTELY justified in commenting exactly as Iggy has about the USA. That doesn't make them less Canadian. It makes them more Taiwanese/Italian, it makes them more worldly, but not less Canadian.

Sorry Lemmy, that's pure BS.

First and formost, these people aren't running to be a leader of a Country.

I don't know many business leaders who reside abroad or in the US who'd describe themselves as American, or consistantly refer to themselves as such.

[BartSimpson]

Lemmy wrote:

There absolutely are de facto Americans. A permanent resident is something very different from a visitor. When you LIVE in America, you are living as an American lives. I call that "de facto".

Nope. That's just a resident alien.

It's like saying that the person who rents or leases an apartment is the defacto owner. See, the actual owner might take umbrage at the notion that the renter/lessee might get the bright idea that they deserve a say in how the owner conducts business.

So while Iggy is certainly entitled to his opinions his presence in the USA at one point made him no more American than my presence in Canada ever made me Canadian.

Now you may take your citizenship so lightly, but I assure you that I do not.

[andyt]

You're wrong, Bart. You just had visitor status, that's a lot different than being a resident. You're saying all immigrants in Canada can't call themselves Canadian. They're not citizens, but they certainly count as being Canadian, or we're in big trouble. What most Canadians want is immigrants to see themselves as more Canadian, not less.

[BartSimpson]

andyt wrote:

You're wrong, Bart. You just had visitor status, that's a lot different than being a resident. You're saying all immigrants in Canada can't call themselves Canadian. They're not citizens, but they certainly count as being Canadian, or we're in big trouble. What most Canadians want is immigrants to see themselves as more Canadian, not less.

To parallel my previous Epistle:

Visitor = overnight guest

Resident = renter/lessee (with a lessee being a more committed renter)

Owner = Citizen

If you want to count foreigners living amongst you as 'Canadians' then feel free to do so. It's your country. Just don't complain when all of those 'Canadians' start demanding the same rights as real Canadians...like the right to vote.

In this context we're speaking of my country. And in my country Iggy is not an American until he becomes a citizen.

Period.

[Lemmy]

BartSimpson wrote:

Nope. That's just a resident alien.

So, you'd say a 1 day-old baby, born American, is MORE American than a 50 year resident of the USA? Okay, fine, I can appreciate that point of view, but I disagree with it.

BartSimpson wrote:

It's like saying that the person who rents or leases an apartment is the defacto owner. See, the actual owner might take umbrage at the notion that the renter/lessee might get the bright idea that they deserve a say in how the owner conducts business.

I don't think rentor-owner is an effective analogy for the resident-citizen relationship.

BartSimpson wrote:

So while Iggy is certainly entitled to his opinions his presence in the USA at one point made him no more American than my presence in Canada ever made me Canadian.

I didn't say it made him an American. I said it made him a de facto American, an American in a great many senses (most senses, in fact), despite his citizenship.

BartSimpson wrote:

Now you may take your citizenship so lightly, but I assure you that I do not.

I suppose I'm guilty on that charge. Citizenship is a label, a piece of paper. It's an arbitrary, bureaucratic designation. I prefer to consider humanity in broader terms, I guess.