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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 10:31 am
 


Quote:
As far as the the leanings of the site. I'd say there are none. Not every member happens to be political. Many avoid the political debates outright. The only way you'd be able to decide which way the website is leaning is by looking at which ever side is argueing the best on recent topics!


Well since it is my site, I thought I would have some input. As i have stated before. this site is not left or right. Its a place where both views can be expressed and discussed. Being patiotic, loving your country is not a left or a right trait.

The site may be a bit left leaning in some areas, because that is my personal standpoint, that rubs of here and there. But I try and keep it fairly neutral.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 7:45 pm
 


Blue_Nose wrote:
Laconfir, I'm sure you have your reasons, but just making a bunch of claims and backing them up with "Anyone who thinks otherwise is stupid" isn't the best way to make an argument.

(I realize a lot of people do the same thing, but you did it several times in the same post, and provided no other facts which back up your claims)


I understand your point. I hate it when people do it too, but it was more of a rant.

My reasoning behind saying that without citing, is, I'd assume people would realise wars are expensive and they have to be about a hell of a lot more than money, as a country can never really re-gain what it's spent on a war. At least, not like the US has.

My source:

"One of the constants of history is that a nation rarely goes to war until it has convinced itself that victory is attainable and worth the cost. In reality, warfare is never worth the cost for those who start them. Instigators of wars invariably come to regret it. Those who resist aggression have a better case. Yet avoiding war typically leaves people feeling they have missed a golden oppurtunity to right some wrong" Page 1, Chapter 1, How to Make War by James F. Dunnigan

Another section:

"Attrition is people and their equipment wearing out. Even in peacetime, up to 2 percent of combat aircraft can be lost to accidents and deterioration each year. In wartime, up to 50 percent of aircraft will be lost each year to non-combat wear and tear. Rarely more than 90 percent of armored vehicles will be in running condition at any given time. Those vehicles that are running will likely break down after going less than 500 kilimetres..." Page 517, Chapter 24, How to Make War by James F. Dunnigan

Well, it doesn't come right in say it in Ch.24, but I assume you could deduct from that that it means wars cost a lot of money, especially if you look at the average cost of say, aircraft.

I don't have the sources to back it up right now, so you can take it as you will, but I read an article in my philosophy class about the US Military and the Pentagon. A huge article about the Military's dependency on oil. It stated that a military Humvee consumes 3 gallons of fuel per mile, and that, for example the M-2 uses 56 gallons of fuel per mile. I'm not sure how accurate it was, but it's just another example showing wars cost money, a lot of money.

If you look in history, most wars have not been about profit. Vietnam for example, the quagmire that it was, was for the most part stopping the spread of Communism. Even the CIA funding of the Mujihadeen fighters in Afghanistan during the Soviet occupation was to stop the spread of communism, so the USSR would not be able to invade Iran and have an all-season port.

And sorry, you can go against my post there all you want, and you're not stupid. The only part I said anything like that was:

Another thing about war is it is never for profit. Anyone that thinks a war is fought for money is stupid. For example, there are many that believe the Iraq War was fought for oil and money. If you think it was fought for oil and monetary gain, you're an imbecile. If the war was over oil, it was because the US wanted power.

And I think by now you'd agree that it's true, wars are not for profit.

Also Blue_Nose, you don't have to cite something if it's common knowledge. As for things that are not common knowledge, would you like me to put my citations in MLA or APA? I prefer MLA.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 10:58 pm
 


Well I do believe we have a grand number of left leaning people, a lot of middle of the road liberals and a few Right wingers who come in out of the cold for a few discussions. It's a place where we all have a vote and can discuss things.
Definatally a political hockey sight. Left Wingers, Right wingers and centers... even the occasional defensive person and even goalie.. blockin out all the political BS....


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 11:01 pm
 


How can you label anything left or right when there's no direction given as far as what you can post and anyone who shows up can voice their opinion?........No matter how wrong they are.

BTW.......Governor General Adrienne Clarkson is retiring at the end of the month and will be replaced by a male. Just remember where you heard that first.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 11:26 pm
 


Regina wrote:
How can you label anything left or right when there's no direction given as far as what you can post and anyone who shows up can voice their opinion?........No matter how wrong they are.

BTW.......Governor General Adrienne Clarkson is retiring at the end of the month and will be replaced by a male. Just remember where you heard that first.

If there was direction as too the way we could post this wouldn't really be a forum.. now would it...
"Like in Russia under communist rule Two TV channels... 1 channel broadcast many important messages that the communist party wanted the people to here.. on second channel was a man with an AK 47 repeating ..Go back to channel 1...", Yakov Shmirnov....
You can tell by the arguements many people wade into what political spectrum the come from....


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 7:04 am
 


Laconfir wrote:
... I'd assume people would realise wars are expensive and they have to be about a hell of a lot more than money, as a country can never really re-gain what it's spent on a war. At least, not like the US has.


While I agree that the net result is a loss, there are usually a hand full of prople who make money. One of my favorire Charactors of history is Major General - United States Marine Corps Smedley Darlington Butler (1881-1940) who wrote a number of things on the subject.
In his own words:

"I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National city Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902–1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested."

After WW1 he wrore "War is a racket" decrying war profiteering and one of the first to identify the "Military Industrial Complex". It reads as possibly one of the most shameful examples of what can happen when profits are more important than morals.


link


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:17 pm
 


True, there are always the bunch that do make a lot off of War. Whether the Iraq war is good or not for the future of the world, Haliburton won't be complaining.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 12:48 am
 


I enjoy this site because it consists of diverse views on issues and allows me to see the other side of certain issues.


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