[Benn]

kenmore wrote:

Oh really? Well I went to a government office in Vancouver to get a copy of a death certificate. I chose to speak only in french and I was served in french. The lady was perfectly bilingual and spoke flawless french. There were also people wanting a marriage license and they too spoke in french. And in Québec you can get services in both languages.

While Manitoba must use both languages legally when it comes to laws and courts etc the public service does not have to be. However I think most services have someone who can help you in French if you needed.

You are wrong about Quebec however. They certainly don't offer all services in both languages. There is one government department that actually issued a regulation that English will not be offered to clients. I'd have to look for the story though as it was like a year ago. Had something to do with a government branch that deal with business licenses or something.

Also, one can't get all the by-laws out here in Gatineau in English, even if you ask. Gatineau has more Anglophones per-captia than I'd argue the rest of the province so I doubt getting things in English is any easier in the hick towns.

[kenmore]

Ya, I'm wrong about Québec... hello! I live in Montréal and yes you can have service in English if you don't speak french. Written material from any municipality have to be in French. Bill 101 but you can have a trial or be served in English in any government office.

[Khar]

... and I have lived in Edmonton and Calgary, but I make no claims to knowing how to do the jobs of bootlegga, Thanos and ASLPlease, amongst the other prairie members on this site, Kenmore -- while you are a resident of Quebec, that does not mean that, as a Nurse, you have extensive knowledge of the service provided in various government offices offhand (ie, we can take your word for it). Nor does my residence in this province make me privy to all the facts and minutiae of this province. While you likely know more about the province than me, I don't think you can make a sweeping proclamation like that about what is or what is not truly available.

Montreal is one of the cities which is considered officially bilingual in Quebec, and indeed is required to provide assistance in both languages. However, it is not a requirement for all cities to provide it in Quebec, and Benn is right that there has been controversy about whether or not Quebec government, health service and social service offices have been providing service in English or not. The book "The Vitality of the English-Speaking Communities of Quebec: From Community Decline to Revival" has a chapter written by James Carter which discusses this in more detail, using various statistics and papers to point out that actual access to services in English are not 100%, nor are they close to being 100% in some cases.

While I do not know about the news story Benn is offering you, it does not look like he is arguing with the fact that they are supposed to. I think he is arguing that they are not actually doing so and there isn't an ardent drive to get those services available for anglophone Quebec residents. The book I mentioned over (with about a dozen different authors referencing various papers) discusses that economy, social, and government issues which were coming to a head in the nineties and the turn of the millennium lead to less enforcement on these issues overall, generally under the PQ government. The book does not that marked improvements have been made since that period in an attempt to improve these problems, but there are still various issues which come up from time to time, if I understand correctly.

This is all secondary literature (like a textbook), but the primary literature is quoting in the bibliography at the end of each chapter. I used an online version so had the lucky break of being able to use ctrl+f, so I've not read the entire book -- just the bits where specific keywords (like service) popped up most frequently.

[kenmore]

Benn wrote:

kenmore wrote:

Oh really? Well I went to a government office in Vancouver to get a copy of a death certificate. I chose to speak only in french and I was served in french. The lady was perfectly bilingual and spoke flawless french. There were also people wanting a marriage license and they too spoke in french. And in Québec you can get services in both languages.

While Manitoba must use both languages legally when it comes to laws and courts etc the public service does not have to be. However I think most services have someone who can help you in French if you needed.

You are wrong about Quebec however. They certainly don't offer all services in both languages. There is one government department that actually issued a regulation that English will not be offered to clients. I'd have to look for the story though as it was like a year ago. Had something to do with a government branch that deal with business licenses or something.

Also, one can't get all the by-laws out here in Gatineau in English, even if you ask. Gatineau has more Anglophones per-captia than I'd argue the rest of the province so I doubt getting things in English is any easier in the hick towns.

Try this.....http://ville.gatineau.qc.ca/page.asp?p= ... mocratique I emailed a member of council.. when I get the reply I will post it. I have a friend who teaches there and will email her as well.

[kenmore]

Gatineau's bi laws English version.. http://www.ville.gatineau.qc.ca/page.as ... municipaux

My friend just emailed me back and you can get services it both languages. Hmmm!

[Bodah]

There are three districts to Gatineau. There's Hull, Aylmer and Gatineau. Gatineau has the smallest anglophone population and Aylmer has the highest. Aylmer A.K.A. Hellmer to Bloc supporters.

From what I've heard theres no problem for the most part getting services in the Gatineau area in english, I'm sure there may be the odd place where it may be difficult here and there likely in the district of Gatineau.

Gatineau is so close to Ottawa that even though bilingualism isn't allowed to be official it is a bilingual city, people there know the advantage of speaking both languages. English and French people get along just fine. I hear alot more french on the Market in Ottawa on the weekend which is cool to hear.

Even there public transit site STO is bilingual. http://sto.ca/index_e.asp

[martin14]

Benn wrote:

I know someone who went through French Immersion in Alberta and took it 3 years in Uni and when she tested for her federal government language test only scored B/B/B which is not fluent but "functional enough." That means after 15 years of public school French classes she was just "Functional enough to survive" but not enough to work in many government positions.

After growing up in New Brunswick, a bilingual province and we could argue
over who would have a better teaching system, it still took 5 years of living
in Montreal to get my French to a decent level.

French would need to be a daily use language in the ROC, and it isn't.

[ShepherdsDog]

It never will be, because outside of Winnipeg(St. Boniface) and a few tiny and dying villages, French is never heard. In the rest of Manitoba, German is the most common language other than English in the south and in the central part of the province it's Ukrainian. Throughout the Prairie Provinces, Ukrainian and German form the two largest linguistic minorities. In BC there are even fewer French speakers with German, Punjabi, Hindi, Mandarin and Cabtonese speakers forming larger groups. French really has no place in Canada, as a language, west of Quebec and outside of a few tiny enclaves in New Brunswick and southern Manitoba. It's simply not practical and of no use outside of securing a job with the federal government.

[Benn]

kenmore wrote:

Ya, I'm wrong about Québec... hello! I live in Montréal and yes you can have service in English if you don't speak french. Written material from any municipality have to be in French. Bill 101 but you can have a trial or be served in English in any government office.

Yeah Hello!!!! I'm from Quebec too or did you miss that? I can't get English service for all government services. Plus I never said info should be only in English, I said you can't get it (the service) in English.

So you can get it in Montreal but I can't in Gatineau. We could both be right then but that still means receipt of English government services across the province is not a guarantee.

[Benn]

kenmore wrote:

Gatineau's bi laws English version.. http://www.ville.gatineau.qc.ca/page.as ... municipaux

My friend just emailed me back and you can get services it both languages. Hmmm!

Those are not all of the bilaws. Check the French part of the site, there are many more. That is your friends experience. Mine it being told personally someone from the province could not help me in English. So are you going to tell me you know better than my personal experiences and those I know out here now?

[kenmore]

I guess bottom line is... right or wrong Québec has language laws that up to now are enforced and if I live in the province I will comply. Like fracophones who leave the province would have to learn English to work and live in anglophone provinces. I have been criticized for speaking french in BC. I wonder if all the English people who come to Québec and only speak english are pricks? Never heard any frenchman complain.

[Benn]

Bodah wrote:

There are three districts to Gatineau. There's Hull, Aylmer and Gatineau. Gatineau has the smallest anglophone population and Aylmer has the highest. Aylmer A.K.A. Hellmer to Bloc supporters.

From what I've heard theres no problem for the most part getting services in the Gatineau area in english, I'm sure there may be the odd place where it may be difficult here and there likely in the district of Gatineau.

Gatineau is so close to Ottawa that even though bilingualism isn't allowed to be official it is a bilingual city, people there know the advantage of speaking both languages. English and French people get along just fine. I hear alot more french on the Market in Ottawa on the weekend which is cool to hear.

Even there public transit site STO is bilingual. http://sto.ca/index_e.asp

You are right. I am arguing the premise that one can ALWAYS get service in English in Quebec. That was the premise of the arugment. The premise is false becuse while you can almost all of the time you can't all off the time. I'd further the argumetn that becuase Gatineau has so many anglophones that if you can't get it 100% of the time here then in some more rual spots in Quebec you likely also can't get it 100% therefore you can't get Englsih services in Quebec all the time, which is what was being proposed.

Unless you live here guys please don't pretend 3rd hand to know better.

As for private sector I've run into many employees who can't speak English. The guy at the Gatineau McDonald's didn't even know the following order in English, "I'll have a large Orange Juice please." The Rona in Hull have people working customer service who can't speak English. I could go on and on. However Bodah is right, despite all this the Anglos and French live together just fine and respectfully. I've only run into one instance of someone being rude because I didn't speak French but you will always have people like that. I've seen worse from English speakers towards foreigners.

I have no problem if I can't get someone English to help me out in private or public sector. I came here knowing that could be an issue and have lived in cultures that don't speak English enough to be able to work with it and not resent it. When one is not the dominant language they have to respect the fact they are going to have trouble, if they can't they should not move there.

Again, my point was to say that English services are not always available 100% of the time in all of Quebec.

[Benn]

kenmore wrote:

I guess bottom line is... right or wrong Québec has language laws that up to now are enforced and if I live in the province I will comply. Like fracophones who leave the province would have to learn English to work and live in anglophone provinces.

Which is more or less like I mentioned in my last post and I agree. English folks who move here then complain about not getting an English service should have known that might happen and just live with it, heck maybe even learn some French while they are at it.

Quote:

I have been criticized for speaking french in BC. I wonder if all the English people who come to Québec and only speak English are pricks? Never heard any frenchman complain.

Wankers like that are in every culture sadly.

[Bodah]

Benn wrote:

Unless you live here guys please don't pretend 3rd hand to know better.

I lived in Hull most of my life so I'll pretend to know what I'm talking about.

I chose the from "what I've heard" part of my post because I spoke french when I left the house for the most part not english, if I needed to renew my drivers license, visit to the doctor, or any other day to day activity it was done in french.

Sure there's going to be the odd person at retail outlets and restaurants that may not be bilingual the same logic applies in reverse in Ottawa.

[kenmore]

Well you do know of what you speak Bodah for sure. I guess because I speak both I have never had an issue. I know in Montréal you can pretty much get service in both languages. I think some people say that of Québec city as well. The rural parts of the province could be challenging. For the most part I think its the attitude of people who for some reason or the other think that its a given people should be able to speak English. I am guilty of that too with immigrants. I think they should be able to speak eng. or french. And I have to hand it to them. In Montréal I know several chinese speaking people who can switch from french to english to chinese without thinking about it. Myself I have a problem with Spanish and I think its because I revert to the french word and pronounciation. But now I am headed back to Spanish classes to brush up before I go to Cuba next month.