[andyt]

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2494844

[Zipperfish]

So much for the "Canadains don't care about proroguing Parliament" theory.

[Akhenaten]

Zipperfish wrote:

So much for the "Canadains don't care about proroguing Parliament" theory.

I don't think they really do. I think they care about being told what they care about. Based on previous prorogues it would seem obvious that they actually don't care. But then when papers like the Globe & Mail run 3-5 blog stories, designed to fan the flames, as their leading front page 'news' stories for 6 weeks straight that tends to get some traction. With media you never know: is art (media) imitating life or is life (us) imitating art? I.e. Do we really care, or do we really care when we've been told we should care for 6 weeks straight?

Even the FB page got tons of media attention. If it didn't would there be 100000 members or 10000?

[andyt]

I think Canadians just don't like game playing by any party, so would turn on the Libs in a second if they were seen to do so. But with Harper the master playah, I think he better recalibrate long and hard. Do you think he can do that and watch the Olympics at the same time?

[Zipperfish]

Akhenaten wrote:

I don't think they really do.

A valid opinion but this evidence--the poll--shows otherwise.

Quote:

Based on previous prorogues it would seem obvious that they actually don't care. But then when papers like the Globe & Mail run 3-5 blog stories, designed to fan the flames, as their leading front page 'news' stories for 6 weeks straight that tends to get some traction. With media you never know: is art (media) imitating life or is life (us) imitating art? I.e. Do we really care, or do we really care when we've been told we should care for 6 weeks straight?

Even the FB page got tons of media attention. If it didn't would there be 100000 members or 10000?

That's how the media operates. Always out for an angle, some way to give legs to a story. And if you're the government, you're the target. The Conservatives never seem to get used to this in Canada though. They can't seem to shake the "media is out to get me" victim mindset.

I have faith in Canadians--I don't think they got played by bloggers at the Globe and Mail, and I don't think they got played by Harper's games.

Message to Harper: Quit fucking around and get to work.

[Akhenaten]

"A valid opinion but this evidence--the poll--shows otherwise."

Welllll, yes that is evidence and it does say otherwise but previous silence is also evidence that they didn't seem to care until now. I ask you: did the media make a 6-week shit storm over it in the past? No. Did they this time? Yes. That's pretty much the only difference I can see from say, Chretien's 4 month prorogue earlier. Personally I think that's because a politician told them they don't care. I don't really care - or alt least not outraged by it -- but when I heard that one...

Quote:

That's how the media operates. Always out for an angle, some way to give legs to a story. And if you're the government, you're the target. The Conservatives never seem to get used to this in Canada though. They can't seem to shake the "media is out to get me" victim mindset.

It's not out to get them. Its out to sell papers and mouse clicks. Manufacturing outrage is a good way to do it.

Doesn't really change anything I said. Personally I don't think even 50% of Canadians knew what a prorogue was until Harper came along.

Quote:

Message to Harper: Quit fucking around and get to work.

Really. How many multi-million dollar, large scale Haiti relief programs have you successfully initiated in the past 2 weeks?

[romanP]

Zipperfish wrote:

That's how the media operates. Always out for an angle, some way to give legs to a story. And if you're the government, you're the target. The Conservatives never seem to get used to this in Canada though. They can't seem to shake the "media is out to get me" victim mindset.

It doesn't help when the first thing they do is make enemies out of the press.

I wonder what it will take to make these dummies realise that if you make enemies out of people, they tend to not want to be on your side, and if you sow the seeds of discord, they will affect you too.

[commanderkai]

It's a poll. Therefore, it's a slow news day.

[andyt]

commanderkai wrote:

It's a poll. Therefore, it's a slow news day.

Ah, but how the Reformacons crow when the polls go their way.

[romanP]

Akhenaten wrote:

"A valid opinion but this evidence--the poll--shows otherwise."

Welllll, yes that is evidence and it does say otherwise but previous silence is also evidence that they didn't seem to care until now. I ask you: did the media make a 6-week shit storm over it in the past? No. Did they this time? Yes. That's pretty much the only difference I can see from say, Chretien's 4 month prorogue earlier. Personally I think that's because a politician told them they don't care. I don't really care - or alt least not outraged by it -- but when I heard that one...

Okay, look.. if you want to bring up past prorogues as reason why this one is okay, at least provide some context. Why was Parliament prorogued all of those other times? Were Jean Chretien or Pierre Trudeau avoiding confidence motions?

[Akhenaten]

andyt wrote:

commanderkai wrote:

It's a poll. Therefore, it's a slow news day.

Ah, but how the Reformacons crow when the polls go their way.

Everyone does. This one is well within the margin of error and it seems to indicate all sorts of things to all sorts of people.

[Akhenaten]

Quote:

Okay, look.. if you want to bring up past prorogues as reason why this one is okay

That's not what I did. i brought up past prorogues to point out why the indignation over this one is a new phenomenon. Chretien prorogued for 4 months. 4 MONTHS...and the second time in 14 months. Where were the calls to "get the fuck back to work"? Nowhere.

He prorogued for all sorts of political-gain reasons. I would bring them up but I suspect you would simply refuse to consider that idea.....because you know: Chretien was anything but a 'dictator'

[andyt]

romanP wrote:

Okay, look.. if you want to bring up past prorogues as reason why this one is okay, at least provide some context. Why was Parliament prorogued all of those other times? Were Jean Chretien or Pierre Trudeau avoiding confidence motions?

I think this is a good point. I don't recall the term prorogue ever coming up with JC. Now this is of course the liberal media bias against the reformacons, but I think it's also because there wasn't the perception that Chretien was trying to hide from something.

[Zipperfish]

Akhenaten wrote:

Welllll, yes that is evidence and it does say otherwise but previous silence is also evidence that they didn't seem to care until now. Personally I think that's because a politician told them they don't care. I don't really care but when I heard that one...

That was then, this is now. Each act had its own context.. This one, it is fair to say, was interrepted negatively.

Quote:

It's not out to get them. Its out to sell papers. Manufacturing outrage is a good way to do it.

Doesn't really change anything I said.

It just means that the "outrage" by Globe and Mail bloggers was hardly peculiar to this issue. The media are perpetually outraged. Thus, I don't think the influence by G&M bloggers to push the issue onto Canadains was successful as you imply.

Quote:

Really. How many multi-million dollar, large scale Haiti relief programs have you successfully initiated in the past 2 weeks?

And that ladies and gentlemen is your classic red herring--beautifully played I might add. Harper would be proud of you for that one--or did you get it off the Big Blue C website?

First of all, it's not fair to drag me, personally, into the debate. I don't wish to divulge personal and professional aspects about me in a public forum. But then, you probably considered that when you posed the question, didn't you? A well-laid trap!

And that's the problem. Too well-laid. Too clever by half. Just like Harper is trying to be here. You can blame the media all you like, but Canadians see through it. They know when they are being played, and the poll results show it.

It's no big deal; it's not like the Conservatives are collapsing. It's just a pretty clear message to quit fucking around.

[EyeBrock]

Zip is right. This prorogue thing has motivated some of the Liberal/NDP types to become more active.
I don't think the committed Tories will be jumping ship because of it as it's still seen as hypocritical for the Libs to tout how bad it is when they used it more often.

Many polls also pose leading questions and the media have really taken to this story. Well they do kinda despise Harper and I think the feeling is mutual.

Steve should realise that the press are a neccessary evil and need to be involved or they will just make shit up or put forward a contrary agenda.

I think when the election rolls around this issue will just be for the partisans and it will be another area where the left of centre vote is split between the Libs and NDP.

But that aside, this has done real short term damage and Harper should take note. This is another hit to his 'master tactician' persona. He needs to get some close and unbiased advice instead of listening to his yes-men/women.

Other wise he will just get another minority.