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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 1:59 pm
 


I think Toronto is doomed. The underclass is already there.
People are moving out to the 'burbs. Companies are re-locating to the burbs or other, cheaper cities.
Soon all that will be left in TO will be the very rich, the poor and those in condos.
The place is a dump, hard to get into, hard to get around and just not for me.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 2:19 pm
 


Toronto, the greater area, is now up to 5.6 million. Housing is expensive, traffic is thick if not actually gridlock and there is poverty. My idea is to prevent the city from getting much larger by raising wages. You could legislate a $13 minimum wage for the greater city area and this would slow growth to the better firms. Eh.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 2:21 pm
 


CommanderSock wrote:
KorbenDeck wrote:
My two cents

Multiculturalism is a fools dream. It can only work if the cultures have some common ground/values. The very idea of multiculturalism is against some religions.


Aren't Patrick's Day and October-Fest a form of multiculturalism?


Yes, and i said it can only work if the cultures have some common ground/values. In this case Christianity.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:05 pm
 


KorbenDeck wrote:
CommanderSock wrote:
Aren't Patrick's Day and October-Fest a form of multiculturalism?


Yes, and i said it can only work if the cultures have some common ground/values. In this case Christianity.


The cultural commonality between St. Pat's Day and Octoberfest ain't Christianity...it's public drunkeness. :)


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:11 pm
 


Lemmy wrote:
The cultural commonality between St. Pat's Day and Octoberfest ain't Christianity...it's public drunkeness. :)


Christian cultures created these two days. You wont find public drunkenness in Islamic culture


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:25 pm
 


I know your just grousing but I have a smarty pants response. You know what the culture is? It's adult family responsibilities. It's going to work every day, paying for the rent/mortgage and food for the kids and being diplomatic with the family - holding your tongue. These are what people live all day everyday and they are unifying virtues. In short it's your lovable self. It's not the media, music or other entertainments it's these base behaviors. There's 160 different countries represented in the immigrant community in Toronto and they are all doing this. Socially and politically they are all pulling for a better country. For the most part this is what people are living.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:59 pm
 


PublicAnimalNo9 wrote:
And actually, the biggest Oktoberfest outside of Germany takes place in Kitchener Ontario, previously known as New Berlin. The German's that immigrated to that region helped to BUILD that region up as well. J.M. Schneider (Scheinder Foods) also helped settle and build the area.
Then again, Germans tended to be industrious, hard-working people.


Actually, i believe it was simply, Berlin. The name changed as a result of patriotic pressures of the Great War to Kitchener, after 1st Earl of Kitchener.

And interestingly enough, many Germans (as a result of Beasley's UEL land sales) came from Pennsylvania - Anabaptist/Mennonite stock.

Typical Upper Canada experience - land give to UEL, sold to new immigrants, and then they help form the backbone of the Ontario cultural experience.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:12 pm
 


Multiculturalism is a major farce..its not working and needs to be scrapped. There is no mixing in communities of groups of people. Large cities are fragmented with subcultural groups moving in to areas and encouraging all immigrants of from the same areas ie China, India, the middle east etc. Immigrants are segregating themselves. They do not want to intregrate or know Canadian way of life.. they don't learn the language in many cases and they set up shop and hire their own.
Not quite what multiculturalism is meant to be.





PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:18 pm
 


kenmore wrote:
Multiculturalism is a major farce..its not working and needs to be scrapped. There is no mixing in communities of groups of people. Large cities are fragmented with subcultural groups moving in to areas and encouraging all immigrants of from the same areas ie China, India, the middle east etc. Immigrants are segregating themselves. They do not want to intregrate or know Canadian way of life.. they don't learn the language in many cases and they set up shop and hire their own.
Not quite what multiculturalism is meant to be.


hmm kind of like official bilingualism.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:22 pm
 


That may be true among adults, but I don't think it's true about kids. I see groups of teenagers hanging out with kids of all colours. Every generation integrates more. It won't happen over-night. And this isn't a Far-Eastern immigration phenomenon. My parents are immigrants and their friends are immigrants. They didn't integrate into Canadian society. They socialized with other Scottish immigrants, not English immigrants and not with Canadians.

I think you're throwing up the failure flag too soon. If you can get Scottish and English Canadians to get along with one another after a couple of generations, surely you can hope for the same for Indian-Canadians.


Last edited by Lemmy on Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:22 pm
 


? . bilingualism?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:34 am
 


A comment I once read on CKA was "nobody wants Muslims, really". I think I would give a culture that keeps women subserviant a pass. I understand that Orthodox muslims don't let their women talk to strangers without chaperones. Only I don't think the Muslims coming to Canada are orthodox. You certainly rarely see a burka in Toronto here.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:27 pm
 


kenmore wrote:
Multiculturalism is a major farce..its not working and needs to be scrapped. There is no mixing in communities of groups of people. Large cities are fragmented with subcultural groups moving in to areas and encouraging all immigrants of from the same areas ie China, India, the middle east etc. Immigrants are segregating themselves. They do not want to intregrate or know Canadian way of life.. they don't learn the language in many cases and they set up shop and hire their own.
Not quite what multiculturalism is meant to be.



Thats not entirely true, there's plenty of mixing even though there are homogenous ethnic communities on the periphery. Central Toronto is full of people from different backgrounds living and working and socializing together, even the so-called Chinatowns and Greektowns are shrinking and becoming more mixed. Those hogenous communties you speak of generally serve as a landing pad for new arrivals but also as a launching pad from which those same immigrants -or their children- emerge and transition into "mainstream" society.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 3:37 pm
 


Bruce_the_vii wrote:
Dear Lord, 2000 good jobs available at RIM - lets let in a million more Asians.

You have to watch these articles about labour shortages for veracity. For example RIM might need 2000 R & D experts but Nortel has let off 10,000 of them. There's been a collase of the R & D sector in general, the high tech bubble. So people need to be recycled.

And the idea that the knowledge economy will be boosted by educating people more seems to be a sound bite. The economy will continue to be work a day jobs for the most part, there's no high tech panacea coming. Entrepreneurs tend to be hard cases with business experience that have identified a niche and have the werewithall to run a business - not PhD's. In the West in general higher education is subsidized by the government and tends to be over invested. We all know people that are working in areas other than what they were trained for because it didn't work out. It's the modern situation. After WWII Statistics Canada reports some 2% of adults had university education while now it's 17%. We don't really need more. This idea that we need immigrants to fill the skilled and professional jobs is a cliche that economists as well as journalist will try to sell to you, to be printable. The idea that immigrants should get the high paying jobs and Canadian youth should do the labouring jobs is highly suspect reasoning.


There is always a mismatch of skills to jobs available for sure. My idea is that the federal government should make more of an effort to get the numbers right and get them out there. For example the baby boomers areabout to retire and create demand for skilled and professional jobs and the government could survey the work force to establish the numbers. People need to know if there are going to be jobs in the field before undertaking a long and expensive training. So that would be something Iggy could do as part of “We can do better” Liberal policy.


You're right we don't need more than about 17% of Canadians to have a college education, as long as you're happy with most of the other 83% working at the Gap or McDonald's, with a few thousand plumbers. But if you some of them to be educators, lawyers, accountants, consultants, electricians, nurses, realtors, or whatever, then you need far more than 17%. Especially because all these entrepreneurs you crow about will need people accountants, lawyers and other skilled professionals to run their businesses, be it by keeping their books, helping them negotiate purchases of other businesses/property, or even creating new products/goods for sale (engineers are particularly handy in this field). To succeed in a knowledge-based economy, we need highly educated and knowledgeable workers, not hordes of high school graduates. That was fine for mass production, but in knowledge intense fields like engineering, law, or accounting, Grade 12 simply won't cut it.

The fallacy with your anti-immigration postings are that immigrants usually DON'T get to be doctors or lawyers or even photocopier repairmen. Instead, they show up and drive taxi, work as janitors or 7/11 clerks because their degree/skill/experience is not accepted by professional boards here. Someone who learned to be a doctor in west Africa probably won't have the education and experience as someone educated in Canada, simply because the schools are so different in the quality of faculty, equipment and so on. So most immigrants wind up spending years working crap jobs to get certified by Canadian professional boards. Frankly, I'm fine with that, as long as re-certification is possible at some point down the road.

And I never said let in a million Asians, I simply said why not let Asian students, who meet the entrance requirements, study here? Apparently some people think only Canadians deserve that right.

Given that Canadians are NOT having enough children to sustain our population AND the fact that the Boomer generation was the largest in Canadian history (9 million or so - almost 1/3 of Canadians), where do you propose we find the 9 million workers to fill their shoes? The Bust generation (commonly called Gen X) was barely half of that (just over 5 million), and are approaching middle age, so they might be able to step into some of those jobs, but where do we find the other 4 million or so managers/executives? Do we give those jobs to the Echo generation, who are just graduating from college? Good Lord, I hope not, as they have no experience to do a job at the same level as a boomer (with 30 years of experience) can.

So where do we find the people to fill those 4 million jobs that the Bust generation won't be able to? Obviously, all 9 million won't retire at once, but there will be a skilled labour shortage no matter when they retire, as those following in their footsteps are far fewer in number.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 3:48 pm
 


Bruce_the_vii wrote:
Toronto, the greater area, is now up to 5.6 million. Housing is expensive, traffic is thick if not actually gridlock and there is poverty. My idea is to prevent the city from getting much larger by raising wages. You could legislate a $13 minimum wage for the greater city area and this would slow growth to the better firms. Eh.


A higher minimum wage will merely cause more anguish for low-wage earners as firms contrive to evade the wage by hiring contract firms based outside of Toronto to do low wage work in the city. The same thing is happening right now in San Francisco.

You can effectively prevent growth by pricing new housing beyond the reach of low wage earners with higher permit fees and higher utility fees and property taxes.

Then what you're doing is causing traffic problems as more and more low wage earners commute to their jobs every day instead of living in the city.

Instead of manipulating the market to slow growth why not just start with stopping immigration? That would not cost a thing.


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