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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:24 pm
 


Thanos wrote:
The overly-righteous and self-satisfied bullies have a bad tendency to believe that their enemies will never fight back. And it comes as a massive ego-shattering blow to them when the other guy has had enough and nails them hard right in the nose.

Right back at ya.
Works 2 ways.
Meawhile you guys can keep bashing your heads against one side of the wall while the others bash theirs on their side of the wall, time goes on and the natives win a ruling the goddamn ocean is theirs and we're all fucked. No tankers, no fishing a $20 kayaking license from every band....
but we'll all have screamed our lungs out, accomplished nothing and get to live with it.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:33 pm
 


Pretty sure that Horgan and Weaver and the rest of the contemporary hipster-dippies would all jump for joy too if another freighter never docked in Vancouver. Don't think for a second their malice for the workings of the modern world is aimed solely at crude oil.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:50 pm
 


Oh can the half assed commentary, over half the posters here actually believe it's true.
What with 2 govt's gonna put up your money to ensure Canada derives as little benefit as possible but wouldn't think to offer the same dollars to help build an upgrade refinery and actually create work.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:35 pm
 


An export line does nothing but generate benefits for Canada based on the royalties from product sold to overseas customers.

I agree about the refineries. If the governments are becoming partners in export lines then they should consider becoming partners in refineries and other processing facilities just to get the royalties back on whatever is created and sold. I actually support the idea of a national energy strategy that makes the governments partners all across the oil & gas sector. For one, it would stabilize the sector and reduces the damage caused during downturns like this manufactured assault on our economy that the Saudis launched four years ago. Two, it would increase the royalty take for all governments. And three, it would have the benefit of scaring off the Americans from dominating too much inside Canada if we put an "us first" mentality in place.

It makes sense on both economic and nationalist levels. So of course it will never happen, because this is Canada where thinking as small as possible is a major part of the nation's pride. :roll:


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:40 pm
 


DrCaleb wrote:
Let the Western bastards freeze in the dark. ;)

Rachel Notley is doing the right thing.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:03 pm
 


herbie wrote:
Oh can the half assed commentary, over half the posters here actually believe it's true.
What with 2 govt's gonna put up your money to ensure Canada derives as little benefit as possible but wouldn't think to offer the same dollars to help build an upgrade refinery and actually create work.


R=UP You make a good point. Only refined products should be exported from the country. It is much safer to transport refined products than raw bitumen. Refining creates more jobs, and adds more value to the product. As far as to who is going to pay for the refinery, put it up for bid. Whatever company/country wants to build a refinery, gets to export the final product. Perhaps multiple refineries could be built. Multiple agreements could be made with multiple companies/countries. Canada could be in the catbird seat of petroleum products if they would just stop fighting with themselves. Canada needs pipelines and refineries if they want to create jobs, and get paid what they should be getting paid for their product.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:12 pm
 


Quote:
An export line for dilbit does nothing but generate the minimal benefits for Canada

FTFY

Partial refining on site to light crude would add $25 a barrel to the export price at today's prices.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:13 pm
 


rickc wrote:
.......Canada could be in the catbird seat of petroleum products everything we'd ever need if they would just stop fighting with themselves.....


Never going to happen. We're as stupid as any other country out there when it comes to the pure mean-spirited joy of ruining each other. This will never change because it is an innate part of the Canadian character.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:09 pm
 


herbie wrote:
Quote:
An export line for dilbit does nothing but generate the minimal benefits for Canada

FTFY

Partial refining on site to light crude would add $25 a barrel to the export price at today's prices.


But cut down drastically on our market share given that Asia isn't interested in buying refined oil.

Quote:
But energy industry observers say it will be difficult to translate these upgrading proposals into concrete projects, not only because there is little industry appetite for building multi-billion-dollar projects prone to cost overruns, but because Asia is more interested in bitumen than in synthetic crude or wholly refined products such as diesel. Asian customers stand to make more money if they refine raw bitumen themselves, and can also tailor products to their own needs.




http://www.vancouversun.com/business/in ... story.html

Building that refinery to ship the finished products to Asia is as big a pipe dream as shipping our refined oil to the States. It's not going to happen no matter how much wishful thinking we do.

So, until something changes, what we have to do is ensure that when we ship what the world wants which is bitumen through our pipelines we do it in a safe cost effective manner that protects both the environment and our national interests.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:03 am
 


Quote:
But cut down drastically on our market share given that Asia isn't interested in buying refined oil.

Now who told you that shit? They aren't interested in buying crude oil? That's what everyone else sells them!
As for completely refining it, what do you think they're doing with the stuff for the Gulf Coast? Refining it and exporting gas and diesel.
Don't even need to export it in BCs case, the market here would consume 100% of it.

They want to EXPORT because they get a little more for dilbit than they do here. The royalties collected will increase because of the VOLUME of production, not WHO buys it.
If they refined it here, they'd get A LOT more profit per barrel. The volume would still go up and earn more royalties and they'd collect GST and PST and excises as well. YOU would see lower prices than importing gas & diesel and more jobs.
They're short selling us. They're telling you the ONLY way is to get the LEAST, and you're buying it?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:12 am
 


Zipperfish wrote:
Well here's Alberta and Sask seeking to nationalize the oil industry after all these years.

This is all just a bunch of posturing anyways. Trudeau is smacking BC, as the pipeline is clearly federal jurisdiction; there's really no need for any further action. BC will have to eat it at the end of the day, and everybody in the know knows it. (The exception being if market forces cause a change of heart at KM.)

This is just Albertans pandering for votes. And that's Alberta for ya--brag like Toronto, whine like Quebec.


In theory BC has to eat it, but if all Trudeau does is issue meaningless platitudes, "It's going to get built" and doesn't support it with action, then it won't get built, especially as next year's election draws closer. He is trying to walk the middle of the road so as to not piss off BC or Alberta voters, but it isn't working.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:18 am
 


herbie wrote:
Oh can the half assed commentary, over half the posters here actually believe it's true.
What with 2 govt's gonna put up your money to ensure Canada derives as little benefit as possible but wouldn't think to offer the same dollars to help build an upgrade refinery and actually create work.


The problem with refining oil is that other countries have different fuel standards.

I don't know about every country's standards, but Australia for example has 92, 94 and 98 percent octane (as opposed to our 87, 89 and 91 standard).

Refining bitumen into light oil adds cost and doesn't always increase market price enough to cover that cost.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:24 am
 


Are there any lines carrying final refined product for hundreds or thousands of kilometers anyway? The refineries deliver the final product by tanker trucks, not pipelines to every town on the map.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:12 am
 


Yes the existing KM line carried refined products from Alberta to Vancouver. That's why the old Gulf/Petrocan, Shell and Esso/IOCO refineries are now just tank farms.

Yesterday light crude was at $65 while dilbit was just under $40

And there are different "octanes", Canada used to be similar with octane measurement, differing from the US measurements (numbers here used to be higher). People along the border knew back in the 1970s & 1980s, little 4bangers like my truck ran like shit with American "regular".
Now we used the US measures because our economies are so integrated. AFAIK you can't even buy 85 that's available in some parts of the USA.
Seem to recall US 100 octane was around our 108 rating...


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