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CKA Uber
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:58 am
 


andyt andyt:
Nope. Canadian ministers both federally and provincially have complained that they actually have to struggle agianst an entrenched bureaucracy to get their views put into action.


Nope right back. Not seeing it. The Minister is in charge, he or she calls the shot. The bureaucrats carry out the decisions. Ministers may well complain about the entrenched bureaucracy--when things go wrong for example--but you're only getting one side of the story because bureaucrats can't speak.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:00 am
 


It's not the Illuminati. Both Harper and Trudeau tried to join.
Harper was turned down because the Illuminati reveres cats, Trudeau because he swears to much.
Mulcair never asked because he knew he would become the subject at one of our sacrificial ceremony's.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:00 am
 


DP


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:13 am
 


Zipperfish Zipperfish:
andyt andyt:
Nope. Canadian ministers both federally and provincially have complained that they actually have to struggle agianst an entrenched bureaucracy to get their views put into action.


Nope right back. Not seeing it. The Minister is in charge, he or she calls the shot. The bureaucrats carry out the decisions. Ministers may well complain about the entrenched bureaucracy--when things go wrong for example--but you're only getting one side of the story because bureaucrats can't speak.


From the perspective of someone in a government department right now - andy is right. (he might have heard it from me).

The civil service knows that the Minister will change from time to time, but the Deputy Minister is here for the long term. DMs may change departments (rare), but they will never be less than a DM. Someday, you will have a professional relationship with a Deputy Minister again, so pleasing them is priority.

I get far more emails from the Deputy Minister than I ever got from any department Minister, so they are quite capable of 'speaking'.

The Minister may command, but the Deputy Minister can keep things tied up with procedures and meetings until the next Minister comes in, upon when it's promptly dropped and never spoken of again.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:54 am
 


DrCaleb DrCaleb:
From the perspective of someone in a government department right now - andy is right. (he might have heard it from me).

The civil service knows that the Minister will change from time to time, but the Deputy Minister is here for the long term. DMs may change departments (rare), but they will never be less than a DM. Someday, you will have a professional relationship with a Deputy Minister again, so pleasing them is priority.

I get far more emails from the Deputy Minister than I ever got from any department Minister, so they are quite capable of 'speaking'.

The Minister may command, but the Deputy Minister can keep things tied up with procedures and meetings until the next Minister comes in, upon when it's promptly dropped and never spoken of again.


There you go then. Definitely not the case federally. At least in the "science departments."


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:03 pm
 


andyt andyt:
You need to take a course in logic. Who says the people already there aren't good? But often the top people leave because they don't see things eye to eye with the new govt. That's when it's time to hire people who have the expertise rather than political buddies.

But fine, you got me. I should have said they need to keep the good people already in the dept, fire those that aren't a good fit and hire good people in their place. Happy now?

Logic and education is what you so dearly lack. You don't know shit from putty but stumble on. Your ass must get jealous of the shit that comes out of your mouth. :roll:


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:04 pm
 


Zipperfish Zipperfish:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
From the perspective of someone in a government department right now - andy is right. (he might have heard it from me).

The civil service knows that the Minister will change from time to time, but the Deputy Minister is here for the long term. DMs may change departments (rare), but they will never be less than a DM. Someday, you will have a professional relationship with a Deputy Minister again, so pleasing them is priority.

I get far more emails from the Deputy Minister than I ever got from any department Minister, so they are quite capable of 'speaking'.

The Minister may command, but the Deputy Minister can keep things tied up with procedures and meetings until the next Minister comes in, upon when it's promptly dropped and never spoken of again.


There you go then. Definitely not the case federally. At least in the "science departments."


I'm very 'Provincial'. ;)


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:11 pm
 


Regina Regina:
Your ass must get jealous of the shit that comes out of your mouth. :roll:


ooooh, burn!


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:42 pm
 


lol, I could barely get through that rubbage.

Its the same line Canadians have been hearing since Harper first came on the scene in 2004. That they're American-style neo-cons with a big bad agenda of privatization and the erosion of our cherished institutions.

Any of you read Andrew Coyne of the National Post from time to time? http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/201 ... -the-time/

The Tories and PM Harper are hardly neo-liberals foaming at the mouth. Harper doesn't move drastically, and he doesn't have some grandiose Trudeau style vision for this country. The strategy is not a secret. It has always been about INCREMENTAL conservatism. The Tories operate within the certain "given" centre-left frameworks of this society and seek to bring steady and staggered changes to institutions that are ineffective and not justified.

The Tories aren't going to privatize health care. Gay marriage is here to stay (hell; their record on asylum for LGBT refugees is STELLAR). Yah we are giving deep cuts to the CBC and pushing Canada Post on the road to privatization. But why the hell wouldn't we? The CBC has been a biased useless institution for far too long and needs to find a more sustainable business model. And Canada Post needs to join the rest of the Western World and be privatized (just like Germany and the UK have done!!).

The immigration system has been overhauled in quite the successful manner and since 2009, the number of BS refugee claims (from places like Mexico and Hungary) have plummeted.

Ahem:

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/201 ... e-working/

I give you, at times there are partisan hacks in the team that take things a step too far. But Harper has been a very steady-as-she-goes kind of leader. And this vitriol on the far left doesn't play to anyone but those who actually believe the dribble. We've had almost a whole term of Harper in a majority government. The sky hasn't fallen. The budget is pretty much already balanced. Canada's signed more free trade agreements than any past government.

There's a record I'm proud of too. CETA in Europe, South Korea, we're close to signing with Japan. Colombia. Expanded trade in Israel. APEC Pacific Rim negotiations. Harper is taking many good steps to diversifying our economy out of the U.S. dependence. We're on the verge of some important growth areas. I really don't think most of the population is buying this gloom and doom BS. At the end of the day people vote with their pocket books. Are taxes (at fed level) are some of the lowest in over half-a-century. The books are going to be balanced by 2015, and barring any economic downturn I can't see Harper not winning.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:40 pm
 


westmanguy westmanguy:
lol, I could barely get through that rubbage.

Its the same line Canadians have been hearing since Harper first came on the scene in 2004. That they're American-style neo-cons with a big bad agenda of privatization and the erosion of our cherished institutions.

Any of you read Andrew Coyne of the National Post from time to time? http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/201 ... -the-time/

The Tories and PM Harper are hardly neo-liberals foaming at the mouth. Harper doesn't move drastically, and he doesn't have some grandiose Trudeau style vision for this country. The strategy is not a secret. It has always been about INCREMENTAL conservatism. The Tories operate within the certain "given" centre-left frameworks of this society and seek to bring steady and staggered changes to institutions that are ineffective and not justified.

The Tories aren't going to privatize health care. Gay marriage is here to stay (hell; their record on asylum for LGBT refugees is STELLAR). Yah we are giving deep cuts to the CBC and pushing Canada Post on the road to privatization. But why the hell wouldn't we? The CBC has been a biased useless institution for far too long and needs to find a more sustainable business model. And Canada Post needs to join the rest of the Western World and be privatized (just like Germany and the UK have done!!).

The immigration system has been overhauled in quite the successful manner and since 2009, the number of BS refugee claims (from places like Mexico and Hungary) have plummeted.

Ahem:

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/201 ... e-working/

I give you, at times there are partisan hacks in the team that take things a step too far. But Harper has been a very steady-as-she-goes kind of leader. And this vitriol on the far left doesn't play to anyone but those who actually believe the dribble. We've had almost a whole term of Harper in a majority government. The sky hasn't fallen. The budget is pretty much already balanced. Canada's signed more free trade agreements than any past government.

There's a record I'm proud of too. CETA in Europe, South Korea, we're close to signing with Japan. Colombia. Expanded trade in Israel. APEC Pacific Rim negotiations. Harper is taking many good steps to diversifying our economy out of the U.S. dependence. We're on the verge of some important growth areas. I really don't think most of the population is buying this gloom and doom BS. At the end of the day people vote with their pocket books. Are taxes (at fed level) are some of the lowest in over half-a-century. The books are going to be balanced by 2015, and barring any economic downturn I can't see Harper not winning.


Well, I feel the same way about the Naitonal Post--I can't make my way through that rubbage either. :lol:

Well, 2015 is a long ways away. I don't think Harper is a shoo-in by any means. The books were already balanced when Harper took power, I believe. The biggest factors in favour of the Conservatives are the relatively weak leaders of the other parties, and the fact that they may split the left. But current polls indicate that people think this government is out of gas and just trying to hang on to power for the sake of holding on to power.

Also in the opposition's favour, the Conservatives have alienated some of its traditional base with the foreign workers fiasco and screwing the veterans. The Unfair Election Act isn't winning them any friends either. Nor did the Liberalesque senate scandals. And they are pretty vulnerable on the environment front.

I don't think the attack ads are going to work this time. Attack ads from a position of vulnerability come across as desperate, an attempt to deflect.

I'm not sure if I'm going to have a red or orange sign on my lawn yet. We'll have to see the caliber of the candiates they put forth locally, and how powerful and positive the message is nationally. I'm kind of excited--for the first time I'm going to be getting involved and volunteering.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:41 pm
 


Well lets not forget that 30+ seats are being added to almost all traditional Tory strongholds by 2015. So the election definitely starts out in his favour.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:09 pm
 


Zipperfish Zipperfish:
Regina Regina:
Your ass must get jealous of the shit that comes out of your mouth. :roll:


ooooh, burn!


Yep, somebody has their panties in a twist.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:18 pm
 


Zipperfish Zipperfish:
Yeah, more of a ra-ra piece for us lefties, than a sort of serious policy review. That said, , it's overzealous but articulating a lot of things we find wring with this and other recent/current governments. Particualarly the idea of politicians basically being in service to billionaires.

Time for the pendulum to swing back.


Every now and then even you lefties are allowed to toot your own horn. Doesn't mean we lunatics on the right agree with you but, it shows that at least you care. [B-o]

Now if we could only go back to the pre 1968 politics when the two major parties were very much centrist and the choice you had was to vote for the one you thought would do a better job.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:25 pm
 


You don't think the Liberals are centrist? After Paul Martin you're not seriously calling them leftist are you? It's the Cons that have moved further from the center.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:05 pm
 


andyt andyt:
You don't think the Liberals are centrist? After Paul Martin you're not seriously calling them leftist are you? It's the Cons that have moved further from the center.


I think one could reasonably say that the centre has moved a little bit right.


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