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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:00 pm
 


BartSimpson BartSimpson:
Robair Robair:
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
Sounds to me like the CWB far exceeded its mandate and in doing so assured its own destruction.

Nice sound bite.

It doesn't apply here.

Thanks for coming out.


Thanks for agreeing with me in your post here:

Robair Robair:
The CWB was a very different marketing board than it was when first implemented.


:wink:

Bart, it's apparent that on this topic, you haven't a clue.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:10 pm
 


Robair Robair:
The CWB was a single desk marketing system. You can't have single desk and open marketing at the same time.

There is no "keeping it around as an option" option. You either have single desk marketing or you don't.

The "third option" was just a ploy by those opposed to single desk marketing to gain support for stripping the board of it's single desk authority thereby destroying it.

The net change as predicted by yours truly and most farmers, is a transfer of wealth from farmer's pockets to grain marketing and transportation companies.


Okay, I'm writing this as someone whose knowledge of the grain industry is limited, at best, but why were Prairie farmers the only ones who had to sell their product through the CWB, when farmers in other parts of Canada didn't have to do it?

From what I understand, this is what drove so many farmers nuts, at least judging by what I've read in the media and in various commentaries. Now, instead of being stuck selling through the CWB, it seems more like they're stuck with having to use one of the private grain companies.

And as for "free trading", I'm skeptical about this when it implies that smaller family farms end up being driven out of business and the sustainability of rural communities is endangered, and the farming industry ends up in the hands of a few big companies. In such a case, I am quite happy to see them supported via taxes and entities like the CWB (provided it gives farmers some kind of choice in the matter) to ensure the long-term viability of rural communities.

Considering the huge subsidies farmers in other countries get (e.g., in the U.S. with the Farm Bill), it's hardly fair to insist that our farmers give up whatever advantages they can get when just about everybody else is getting a hand up.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:18 pm
 


It was a left-over from the Dirty Thirties.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:19 pm
 


Reading through this thread: current-events-f59/pro-cwb-farmers-dump-wheat-in-front-of-mp-s-office-t98332.html?hilit=freedom

Would answer a lot of that. Right now, farmers are losing their shirts and prairie grain brokers are making a killing. There is a huge glut of grain that hasn't moved because the transportation is a flustercluck of these brokers competing to send product they've purchased to ports they are affiliated with instead of one effort to organize and move the grain on the FARMER'S behalf.

That thread I linked to was before this all happened, and explains why this is all GOING to happen. Now it's happening.

No, I don't have a crystal ball. I have common fucking sense and a Saskatchewan grain farming heritage.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:37 am
 


$1:
Canadian farmers stuck with last harvest scramble to plant next

WINNIPEG, Manitoba (Reuters) - Western Canadian farmers still stuck with last year's harvest are turning to the government for credit help in record numbers, and insiders fear problems could cascade through the agricultural economy as the new planting season gets under way.

A record-breaking harvest and harsh winter last year overwhelmed Canada's two big railways, backing up the flow of grain from western elevators to ports and leaving farmers with few buyers. Up to C$20 billion ($18.1 billion) worth of crops was stuck in storage as of late March, according to the Canadian government.

. . .

Farmers face an unpalatable choice between deploying debt and savings to fund spring planting on the usual scale, or cutting costs on seed and fertilizer, thus risking smaller returns.

. . .

Until recently, Dodd had 20,000 bushels of barley piled on the ground, rising some 30 feet above the prairie

http://ca.reuters.com/article/domesticN ... C620140429


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:53 am
 


Current state of affairs.

CWB the missing link in grain crisis

Farmers borrow government cash as grain backlog continues

Transportation crisis boosts grain company profits

Perfect storm. The same year our government destroys the CWB, we have a harsh winter and record crops.

The CWB would have faced the same transportation challenges, and would have fared much better.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:16 am
 


Robair Robair:
Bart, it's apparent that on this topic, you haven't a clue.


No, I'm just fine with this. The CWB was an anachronism and when its controls were lifted a record crop occurred. That's not a coincidence given that the board previously kept harvests under control, yields high, and prices high. Now a free market response took place and a record harvest came in. The railroads were not prepared for this harvest so the farmers who took in contracts on their wheat were not able to deliver it all on time and they've eaten penalties and losses due to this.

The solution will occur as farmers line up trucks and other means to move their crops for this year. Or the railroad will bring in additional capacity from the US.

Perfectly normal things to happen when liberty replaces central control.

The market will adjust and new median level will occur in the market to replace the artificial median the CWB maintained.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:55 am
 


BartSimpson BartSimpson:
Robair Robair:
Bart, it's apparent that on this topic, you haven't a clue.


No, I'm just fine with this. The CWB was an anachronism and when its controls were lifted a record crop occurred. That's not a coincidence given that the board previously kept harvests under control,
How, pray tell, did the board do that? You need to stop, you are clueless.

BartSimpson BartSimpson:
yields high, and prices high. Now a free market response took place and a record harvest came in.
The global demand and price for grain is hardly dictated by Canadian exports. Record prices for wheat in the years leading up to the destruction of the wheat board is what has increased seeded acres of wheat. Along with reduced Canola production due to disease and a reduction in ceded acres for barley (which was also under the single desk system, why no "free market response" in barley's case?). That would have happened under either system. The American farmers are also producing more wheat than ever and there's been no change in the way of doing business down there. Add to that, western Canada saw ideal growing conditions. Or does the way we market our grain affect the weather?

The loss of the wheat board will lead to decreased production this year. Farmers have not been paid for last years crop, they aren't going to have money for inputs to start this years. This hasn't happened before.

BartSimpson BartSimpson:
The solution will occur as farmers line up trucks and other means to move their crops for this year. Or the railroad will bring in additional capacity from the US.
:lol: Trucking grain to the coast!! That's the solution!

You're spewing bullshit. I assume out of ignorance because I can't see why you'd have a horse in this race.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:10 pm
 


$1:
Suncor posts record profit on booming oil shipments

Oilsands giant Suncor Energy Inc. has posted record operating earnings as it was able to get more of its crude to market by pipeline and rail.

The Calgary-based company says operating earnings were more than $1.79 billion, or $1.22 per share — widely beating the average analyst expectation of 93 cents, according to estimates compiled by Thomson Reuters


http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/suncor- ... -1.2625473

Contrast that to the Farmer who can't seem to get railcars for grain and:

$1:
Transportation crisis boosts grain company profits
Farmers unable to move crops this winter have had plenty of time to notice the difference between what grain companies are paying in the country and selling for off the West Coast.

“Our calculations demonstrate the grain companies have taken over $1.6 billion in excess profits from wheat alone so far this crop year,” said CWBA spokesman and former Canadian Wheat Board director Kyle Korneychuk last week.

University of Saskatchewan agricultural economist Richard Gray independently reached a similar conclusion after comparing prices in the country, where elevators are plugged, against export sales at West Coast ports where prices are in some cases double.

The result is unprecedented grain company margins, despite what is expected to be record demurrage costs.

The CWBA estimates grain companies are earning almost $169 a tonne in excess profit from wheat, based on exports of 9.7 million tonnes to date. Gray’s calculations put company profits at $160 per tonne.

http://www.manitobacooperator.ca/2014/0 ... y-profits/


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:21 pm
 


Robair Robair:
Trucking grain to the coast!! That's the solution!


Yes, it is.

In California the rice farmers can only ship so much rice from the Port of Sacramento where their terminal is located. In years when harvests exceed the capacity of the Port then trucks ship the excess harvest to the Port of Oakland...on the coast.

Fleets of trucks exist just to carry these bumper crops to Oakland.

No reason why they can't be hired to work in Canada when the rice season is done.

0:
File comment: Fleet of Rice Trucks
Rice trucks.JPG
Rice trucks.JPG [ 197.84 KiB | Viewed 157 times ]


But don't let that stop you from protesting change.


Last edited by BartSimpson on Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:33 pm
 


DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Contrast that to the Farmer who can't seem to get railcars for grain


Oil cars and grain cars are not the same thing because the oil market in Canada is now well-established and the oil cars are currently the alternative to the Keystone Pipeline. Oil traffic in Canada has increased some 3000% in the past ten years and Canadian oil tends to move by rail. This is good news for your railroads who are using the new revenues for addressing deferred maintenance like what caused the disaster in Quebec.

One of the interesting things impacting the availability of grain cars in North America is the large number of older grain cars that have been retasked to carrying sands for the oil fields that use fracking techniques. While the US farms are able to get their products to market Union Pacific does not have any excess capacity to loan to Canada as that excess capacity is being used for fracking sands.

No doubt the Canadian railways are ordering new grain cars to meet future demands.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:58 pm
 


BartSimpson BartSimpson:
Robair Robair:
Trucking grain to the coast!! That's the solution!

In California the rice farmers can only ship so much rice from the Port of Sacramento where their terminal is located. In years when harvests exceed the capacity of the Port then trucks ship the excess harvest to the Port of Oakland...on the coast.

Yea... now compare that to the trip from Regina, SK to Vancouver.

Ooooo, 130 or so Kilometers. The haul you just described is pretty close to the drive a lot of farmers in SK already make just to get their grain to the nearest rail terminal. Then there's the 1,600 km train ride to the coast...


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:01 pm
 


BartSimpson BartSimpson:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Contrast that to the Farmer who can't seem to get railcars for grain


Oil cars and grain cars are not the same thing because the oil market in Canada is now well-established and the oil cars are currently the alternative to the Keystone Pipeline. Oil traffic in Canada has increased some 3000% in the past ten years and Canadian oil tends to move by rail. This is good news for your railroads who are using the new revenues for addressing deferred maintenance like what caused the disaster in Quebec.

One of the interesting things impacting the availability of grain cars in North America is the large number of older grain cars that have been retasked to carrying sands for the oil fields that use fracking techniques. While the US farms are able to get their products to market Union Pacific does not have any excess capacity to loan to Canada as that excess capacity is being used for fracking sands.

No doubt the Canadian railways are ordering new grain cars to meet future demands.


The grain industry was also well established, and even though there was a bumper crop, the levels of grain shipped don't seem to match up to regular years. Railways said that they had to run shorter trains because of the colder winter. Yet, there was room for oil shipments. Logical since oil costs more to ship, and it would lead to larger profits. (rail companies also posted record quarterly profits, despite shorter trains).

But that isn't the problem here. Western Farmers used to have to sell their wheat and barley to the Wheat Board. Eastern Farmers didn't have to, the Western Farmers didn't have a choice. But now that the law has been removed, in theory they should have the choice to sell privately or to the Wheat Board. They could sell to one the grain terminals, but the terminals are full because there are no railcars to ship the grain already there. The Wheat board had legislated access to ship grain, but the Wheat Board ends next year. The Wheat Board can't survive or fail on it's merits, because the government says so. Farmers have no choice.

In the mean time, the large grain exporters decide what they will pay for farmers rotting record crops. Farmers have no choice, because the large exporters control access to their contracted rail cars, and favour the factory farms they already own. And get record prices for that grain. Meanwhile, farmers have to borrow against a record crop that's starting to rot in order to plant enough for this year. It's gone from a monopoly that favoured the farmers, to one that favours the big factory farms.

That's my understanding of the situation.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:10 pm
 


@ Dr. Caleb,

In the 1920's the US Midwest saw a record boom in wheat harvests and the result was an explosion in the acreage put under the plow for wheat. That directly led to the Dust Bowl and the collapse of the wheat crop as a monocrop industry.

If this circumstance causes a winnowing of acreage devoted to wheat then that acreage will need to be planted with different crops, converted to pasture, or allowed to return to being prairie. In any case, the market will find it's balance in the post-CWB era and this kind of thing is to be expected.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:15 pm
 


Pretty close...

The Wheat Board no longer exists though.

Over the decades, the wheat board has built a brand that is number one in the global grain industry. The new company that exists uses the same name and logo and that's it.

Farmers don't have a 'choice' to sell to the THE wheat board, the one that used to organize the grain transportation, order rail cars based on crop forecasts, and market the grain globally with the sole purpose of squeezing every last dollar that they could out of the crop to return it to farmers in equalization payments at the end of the year. That wheat board doesn't exist any more.

The whole "survive on it's own merits" or "farmers can choose between open market and single desk" jingle is just Conservative party propaganda. There is nothing to it.


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