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CKA Uber
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 1:52 pm
 


Canada’s prime minister is a formidable operator, but he has a fight on his hands

$1:
WHEN Stephen Harper led his Conservatives to victory in 2006 and formed a minority government, few Canadians expected it to last. The Liberals, who had dominated national politics for much of the past century, saw it as an interregnum. They did not have the measure of Mr Harper. Through the force of his personality and his ideas, the prime minister kept his party in power, winning a second minority in 2008 and then a majority in 2011. By the middle of this month he will have been in office longer than all but seven of Canada’s 22 prime ministers. Love him or loathe him, as Canadians do in equal measure, no one can deny that he is a remarkably successful politician.

But as parliament reconvenes this month for the last complete session before a general election, scheduled for October 2015, Mr Harper is in trouble. The baggage accumulated by all long-serving governments is weighing him down. The economy, supposedly a Conservative strong point, is fragile. For the first time in a decade Mr Harper is facing a popular Liberal leader, in Justin Trudeau. Mr Harper dismisses speculation that he might resign as “surreal”. But the window may be closing on his long-term project to remake Canada in the Conservative image.


http://www.economist.com/news/americas/ ... -political


If we can discuss this without everybody getting "extremist" Left or Right, it would be nice. :D


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:02 pm
 


I think every government falls into the same traps. They accumulate baggage, and eventually Canadians vote for change. But it takes a few years to realize we ended up getting the same turd wrapped up in a different colour wrapper.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:06 pm
 




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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:14 pm
 


DrCaleb DrCaleb:
I think every government falls into the same traps. They accumulate baggage, and eventually Canadians vote for change. But it takes a few years to realize we ended up getting the same turd wrapped up in a different colour wrapper.


You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

I just wish he had the same balls as Chretien! That guy wouldn't have told Putin to get out of Ukraine...he would have grabbed him by the throat and tossed him from the G20.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:19 pm
 


Canada threatening Russia would be significantly more effective with a military that could back up the threat. <--- Not a criticism or a slam, mind you. Just this is how I'd look at it were I Putin.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:37 pm
 


BartSimpson BartSimpson:
Canada threatening Russia would be significantly more effective with a military that could back up the threat. <--- Not a criticism or a slam, mind you. Just this is how I'd look at it were I Putin.

I don't think Putin is impressed by military might. If he was, he probably would have been moved by US/EU intimidation already.

He seems far more impressed with those that have the ability to mess with his resources markets. There is more to this than just oil.

We play in many of the same markets, selling the same wares.

I hate to say it Bart, but Canada telling him where to stick it was probably far more terrifying than the US doing it, to Putin. US intimidation strengthens his voter base. Canada undercutting some of his markets doesn't.

Than again, maybe I am just way out there.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:46 pm
 


DrCaleb DrCaleb:
I think every government falls into the same traps. They accumulate baggage, and eventually Canadians vote for change. But it takes a few years to realize we ended up getting the same turd wrapped up in a different colour wrapper.

Pretty much seems that way doesn't it?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:48 pm
 


I think this is overplayed. I expect Harper to win again, tho with a smaller majority. Personally I'd like to see a Con minority, to keep them under control, while the Libs just don't seem ready for prime time and the Dips need to figure out how far left they really are.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 5:02 am
 


I'll admit that while Mr. Harper led a minority government, he did a great job, it was surprising. But, when he won his majority government, there we saw what he was really like. I still resent him for sucking up to the Americans, especially after the way they treated Chretien. I'll say this any friend of Bush (either one) or Obama is no friend of ours. I hope
Justin Trudeau fixes his clock. Should he be only half the man his father was, we will be well served. He knows nothing about external affairs, diplomacy, or real world politics.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 5:08 am
 


peck420 peck420:
I don't think Putin is impressed by military might. If he was, he probably would have been moved by US/EU intimidation already.

He seems far more impressed with those that have the ability to mess with his resources markets. There is more to this than just oil.

We play in many of the same markets, selling the same wares.

I hate to say it Bart, but Canada telling him where to stick it was probably far more terrifying than the US doing it, to Putin. US intimidation strengthens his voter base. Canada undercutting some of his markets doesn't.

Than again, maybe I am just way out there.


uhh, that's because there wasn't any military intimidation for him to be moved by.

And, Canada somehow influencing the price of oil these days, to help
fool around with the Russians, yeah that is pretty 'out there'.

When we sell 80-90% of our oil to the U.S., we have zero influence on the world price. Sorry.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 5:17 am
 


Baddragon Baddragon:
But, when he won his majority government, there we saw what he was really like.


Oh goody, more 'secret agenda' stuff.
Would you care to enlighten us as to what horrible things he has done with his majority ?
Bible thumpers everywhere ?
Abortion illegal now ?
Mass persecutions of Quebecers ?
Maple syrup cartel raising prices again ?


$1:
Justin Trudeau fixes his clock. Should he be only half the man his father was, we will be well served.


JT is half the man his father was, probably even less. :lol:


$1:
He knows nothing about external affairs, diplomacy, or real world politics.


Yes, we know. He also knows nothing about internal affairs, the economy, or real world people.
It's getting to be quite the list of things he doesn't know.
Except legalizing dope, of course. ;)


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 6:17 am
 


DrCaleb DrCaleb:
I think every government falls into the same traps. They accumulate baggage, and eventually Canadians vote for change. But it takes a few years to realize we ended up getting the same turd wrapped up in a different colour wrapper.


^This.

I also think the saying, absolute power corrupts absolutely - after all a while with a majority, politicians start thinking you can do anything you want, like handing out brown paper bags full of cash to party supporters or other dirty tricks.

For the record, Harper hasn't been nearly as awful as I thought he was going to be.

On the plus side, he deep-sixed income trusts when almost every major corporation in the country was considering converting to one to avoid paying taxes, he prevented the social conservatives in his caucus from reversing same-sex marriages and he was even willing to go into deficit after the sub-prime meltdown to prevent us from getting sucked into the vortex.

While he's made plenty of what I would consider mistakes, he hasn't done anything truly horrible like many expected (myself included) him to do once he got a majority. Of course, that's not because he didn't want to, but because he wants to remain in power and he's fully aware that there are more people Canadians sitting close to the middle of the political spectrum than they are on the far right.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:19 am
 


bootlegga bootlegga:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
I think every government falls into the same traps. They accumulate baggage, and eventually Canadians vote for change. But it takes a few years to realize we ended up getting the same turd wrapped up in a different colour wrapper.


^This.

I also think the saying, absolute power corrupts absolutely - after all a while with a majority, politicians start thinking you can do anything you want, like handing out brown paper bags full of cash to party supporters or other dirty tricks.

For the record, Harper hasn't been nearly as awful as I thought he was going to be.

On the plus side, he deep-sixed income trusts when almost every major corporation in the country was considering converting to one to avoid paying taxes, he prevented the social conservatives in his caucus from reversing same-sex marriages and he was even willing to go into deficit after the sub-prime meltdown to prevent us from getting sucked into the vortex.

While he's made plenty of what I would consider mistakes, he hasn't done anything truly horrible like many expected (myself included) him to do once he got a majority. Of course, that's not because he didn't want to, but because he wants to remain in power and he's fully aware that there are more people Canadians sitting close to the middle of the political spectrum than they are on the far right.



I don't think his attacks on democracy, muzzling of scientists, etc can be described as mistakes. I do think those are truly horrible, which is why I'd like to see a CPC minority. I don't think the Dips and Libs are ready to govern, but the Cons need to be reigned in.

By your answer, seems that Harper has correctly figured out not to be extreme as far as fiscal or social policy goes, but all the scandals, changes to the elections act, and so forth will just be forgotten by the masses.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:50 am
 


andyt andyt:
I think this is overplayed. I expect Harper to win again, tho with a smaller majority. Personally I'd like to see a Con minority, to keep them under control, while the Libs just don't seem ready for prime time and the Dips need to figure out how far left they really are.


That's kind of where I'm landing, tho I would prefer a liberal minority government. The importnat thing for me is minority. Though they don't seem to last long in this day and age.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 10:01 am
 


That would lead to a Lib/Dip alliance, ie the Libs pulled left of center. It would possibly be quite stable, with neither party wanting to precipitate another election unless they think they can do well. The Dips would be so chastened by being in third place again, they certainly wouldn't want to push or an election. Se we'd basically have the kinds of govts we often had in the 80's. I think better to have the Cons in govt to at least retain some fiscal sanity, but with a tight reign on the dictatorial stuff. IF the Cons lose their majority, parliamentary committees could properly investigate and depredations Haper (or Kenney if he replaces him) wouldn't be able to get away with the shit he does now.


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