[Lemmy]

No, you can't tax the hell out of it. If you do that, you create an opportunity for a black market. You can tax it, but you have to be very careful in how you choose the rate of the excise tax.

No one wants their children to have unprotected sex or speed on motorcycles or drink and drive, but ultimately we need to allow people to make their own moral choices. The greatest evil that can come of this fear is that we allow the government to become our defacto parents. I have my own parents that taught me right from wrong. I don't need the government doing my parents' job and I don't want to pay for the government to do others' parenting for them.

[ASLplease]

Most of these things were and are illegal when I was growing up. yet, I don't see how I was stopped from making my own moral choices?

I, too, am fearful of the government becoming the parent. However, I am more fearful of a government that wants to tie their financial purse strings to negative welfare of my children.

Government with parental principles are harder to find than government that is motivated by money and greed.

[DerbyX]

ASLplease wrote:

Some people say that we should legalize drugs, gambling and prostitution and then tax the hell out of it.

But who wants their sons to shoot heroin? Who wants their daughters to be used as a sex tool to enhance government revenues?

The question then: Who wants their child to be treated as a resource to be milked by the government for revenue? Who wants to offer up their child’s body to be used for that?

Who wants their child doing porn or stripping? Thats legal. Prostitution is already legal in Canada but under certain circumstances. Most parents if not all don't want their child to smoke and thats legal.

The fact is that a lot of things are legal that could be made illegal in order to "protect us". The question is do we want to live in a society like that?

Making things legal provides protection and a means of control. Look at the US and its storied history of legal and illegal alcohol production. Moonshining is still done in the states. Hell, uncle Jesse was a moonshiner. Those Americans don't want the government telling them they can't make alcohol. At least when its legal the government has some control over the quality, sale, and distribution. As already posted many times the government takes in loads of money by taxing it and they use that money to fund schools and hospitals, money that would be made up elsewhere.

For things like prostitution it provides a measure of control and protection for the women or at least more women then currently. Look at the pron industry and the exotic dancer industry. Both are legal and governed by the same laws that govern all the other industries. Women in those fields actually are empowered to a great degree. In porn its the women who call the shots especially if they make a name for themselves and so to in stripping. Quite a few of them fully control their lives and do that job because they can make a lot of money for their families or to put themselves through school. At their job they are protected by workplace laws just as a cashier is at theirs. Illegality wouldn't stop the activity but it would put those women at the mercy of their employers because the law would not be there to protect them and might be there to prosecute them.

Legality may not eliminate all the problems but it will sure as hell minimize the bulk of them. Quite frankly illegality and a harsh penal system has failed and failed miserably. The US is a prime example. The harsher they get he worse the problem becomes. All you get is a far greater strain on the tax-payers as you need to fund more police, judges, and lawyers (we pay to defend drug dealers too). We also pay for a very expensive penal system to house them, a system that only insures that when they get out they are better and more connected criminals with no chance to go straight.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. The insanity of the current war on drugs is just that. We keep trying the same thing over and over expecting that someday everybody will just throw their hands up in the air and give up. Thats not going to happen. The war is over and the law has lost. It was always going to lose because you cannot legislate morality which is entirely what the law is trying to do.

[DerbyX]

ASLplease wrote:

Most of these things were and are illegal when I was growing up. yet, I don't see how I was stopped from making my own moral choices?

I, too, am fearful of the government becoming the parent. However, I am more fearful of a government that wants to tie their financial purse strings to negative welfare of my children.

Government with parental principles are harder to find than government that is motivated by money and greed.

Then teach your children right and wrong instead of relying on a government to force it on them.

[ASLplease]

DerbyX wrote:

ASLplease wrote:

Some people say that we should legalize drugs, gambling and prostitution and then tax the hell out of it.

But who wants their sons to shoot heroin? Who wants their daughters to be used as a sex tool to enhance government revenues?

The question then: Who wants their child to be treated as a resource to be milked by the government for revenue? Who wants to offer up their child’s body to be used for that?

Who wants their child doing porn or stripping? Thats legal. Prostitution is already legal in Canada but under certain circumstances. Most parents if not all don't want their child to smoke and thats legal.

The fact is that a lot of things are legal that could be made illegal in order to "protect us". The question is do we want to live in a society like that?

Making things legal provides protection and a means of control. Look at the US and its storied history of legal and illegal alcohol production. Moonshining is still done in the states. Hell, uncle Jesse was a moonshiner. Those Americans don't want the government telling them they can't make alcohol. At least when its legal the government has some control over the quality, sale, and distribution. As already posted many times the government takes in loads of money by taxing it and they use that money to fund schools and hospitals, money that would be made up elsewhere.

For things like prostitution it provides a measure of control and protection for the women or at least more women then currently. Look at the pron industry and the exotic dancer industry. Both are legal and governed by the same laws that govern all the other industries. Women in those fields actually are empowered to a great degree. In porn its the women who call the shots especially if they make a name for themselves and so to in stripping. Quite a few of them fully control their lives and do that job because they can make a lot of money for their families or to put themselves through school. At their job they are protected by workplace laws just as a cashier is at theirs. Illegality wouldn't stop the activity but it would put those women at the mercy of their employers because the law would not be there to protect them and might be there to prosecute them.

Legality may not eliminate all the problems but it will sure as hell minimize the bulk of them. Quite frankly illegality and a harsh penal system has failed and failed miserably. The US is a prime example. The harsher they get he worse the problem becomes. All you get is a far greater strain on the tax-payers as you need to fund more police, judges, and lawyers (we pay to defend drug dealers too). We also pay for a very expensive penal system to house them, a system that only insures that when they get out they are better and more connected criminals with no chance to go straight.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. The insanity of the current war on drugs is just that. We keep trying the same thing over and over expecting that someday everybody will just throw their hands up in the air and give up. Thats not going to happen. The war is over and the law has lost. It was always going to lose because you cannot legislate morality which is entirely what the law is trying to do.

We've covered this in great detail before, and those issues were shown to be flawed. Are you trying to stir up trouble for this thread?

[ASLplease]

DerbyX wrote:

ASLplease wrote:

Most of these things were and are illegal when I was growing up. yet, I don't see how I was stopped from making my own moral choices?

I, too, am fearful of the government becoming the parent. However, I am more fearful of a government that wants to tie their financial purse strings to negative welfare of my children.

Government with parental principles are harder to find than government that is motivated by money and greed.

Then teach your children right and wrong instead of relying on a government to force it on them.

I did/I will.

They won't be supporting the idea to enhance government revenues through expanding the sex and drug trade.

[DerbyX]

ASLplease wrote:

DerbyX wrote:

ASLplease wrote:

Some people say that we should legalize drugs, gambling and prostitution and then tax the hell out of it.

But who wants their sons to shoot heroin? Who wants their daughters to be used as a sex tool to enhance government revenues?

The question then: Who wants their child to be treated as a resource to be milked by the government for revenue? Who wants to offer up their child’s body to be used for that?

Who wants their child doing porn or stripping? Thats legal. Prostitution is already legal in Canada but under certain circumstances. Most parents if not all don't want their child to smoke and thats legal.

The fact is that a lot of things are legal that could be made illegal in order to "protect us". The question is do we want to live in a society like that?

Making things legal provides protection and a means of control. Look at the US and its storied history of legal and illegal alcohol production. Moonshining is still done in the states. Hell, uncle Jesse was a moonshiner. Those Americans don't want the government telling them they can't make alcohol. At least when its legal the government has some control over the quality, sale, and distribution. As already posted many times the government takes in loads of money by taxing it and they use that money to fund schools and hospitals, money that would be made up elsewhere.

For things like prostitution it provides a measure of control and protection for the women or at least more women then currently. Look at the pron industry and the exotic dancer industry. Both are legal and governed by the same laws that govern all the other industries. Women in those fields actually are empowered to a great degree. In porn its the women who call the shots especially if they make a name for themselves and so to in stripping. Quite a few of them fully control their lives and do that job because they can make a lot of money for their families or to put themselves through school. At their job they are protected by workplace laws just as a cashier is at theirs. Illegality wouldn't stop the activity but it would put those women at the mercy of their employers because the law would not be there to protect them and might be there to prosecute them.

Legality may not eliminate all the problems but it will sure as hell minimize the bulk of them. Quite frankly illegality and a harsh penal system has failed and failed miserably. The US is a prime example. The harsher they get he worse the problem becomes. All you get is a far greater strain on the tax-payers as you need to fund more police, judges, and lawyers (we pay to defend drug dealers too). We also pay for a very expensive penal system to house them, a system that only insures that when they get out they are better and more connected criminals with no chance to go straight.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. The insanity of the current war on drugs is just that. We keep trying the same thing over and over expecting that someday everybody will just throw their hands up in the air and give up. Thats not going to happen. The war is over and the law has lost. It was always going to lose because you cannot legislate morality which is entirely what the law is trying to do.

We've covered this in great detail before, and those issues were shown to be flawed. Are you trying to stir up trouble for this thread?

Actually no one has shown a single issue on that list is flawed nor been able to counter it. In fact so far nobody any where is able to counter a single legalize drugs point (without admitting half of society today should be outlawed) in any coherent way.

All they ever really say is "I don't like drugs personally so therefore they should be outlawed).

Society is steadily and steadily moving towards that goal. Its just taking time for people to accept it (and for set in their ways old people to die out) just like it did for accepting homosexuality, womens rights, etc.

[DerbyX]

ASLplease wrote:

I did/I will.

They won't be supporting the idea to enhance government revenues through expanding the sex and drug trade.

They already do through alcohol, tobacco, and gambling. They also indirectly get revenue from illegal drugs when all those dealers use that money to purchase things and pay sales tax.

If you don't want those people to have to pay for government provided services then lobby that it shouldn't be taxed but it should sure as hell be legal.

[Choban]

ASLplease wrote:

Some people say that we should legalize drugs, gambling and prostitution and then tax the hell out of it.

But who wants their sons to shoot heroin? Who wants their daughters to be used as a sex tool to enhance government revenues?

The question then: Who wants their child to be treated as a resource to be milked by the government for revenue? Who wants to offer up their child’s body to be used for that?

My gosh, you sure went to extremes here, No one said anything about Heroin or prostitution, this is about pot.

[Choban]

ASLplease wrote:

Most of these things were and are illegal when I was growing up. yet, I don't see how I was stopped from making my own moral choices?

I, too, am fearful of the government becoming the parent. However, I am more fearful of a government that wants to tie their financial purse strings to negative welfare of my children.

Government with parental principles are harder to find than government that is motivated by money and greed.

Most kids wll try pot weather leagal or not, and despite the best parenting alot will still try it. I come from a family that has very good morals and parents that taught me alot of values and good things, I won't elaborate but I still tried pot, as did both my parents before me and I have confirmed that also my grandmother has tried pot at a teenager. The only difference between them and me is that I continued to smoke it into my adult years.

[ASLplease]

Ofcourse most kids will try pot, that is why we dont need to legalize it. They will get it anyways.

[Tom_Swift]

No it is not quit being a traditional conservative. Prohibition of alcohol created organized crime and death on our streets and no decrease in the use of alcohol. Drugs prohibition is what if fueling the gang violence witnessed across Canada. Everywhere where drugs have been legalized crime has gone down.

[ASLplease]

gang violence is not caused by drug prohibition, it is caused by gangs.

[Tom_Swift]

ASLplease wrote:

gang violence is not caused by drug prohibition, it is caused by gangs.

Why do gangs exist? Because there is vast amount of easy money to be made by those who have nothing to lose often like people in lower class areas and continues to be a problem because of the current revolving door "justice" or legal system. Tougher laws can help in some respects but does not so for drug use.

[ASLplease]

There was a point made by another poster that is worth repeating.

As long as the marijuana industry in Canada is an export industry, then it requires a criminal to run it.

You are correct...there will always be a criminal element to society. IMO, we don't need to be providing them with a safe haven to do business in.