[alsocanadian]

Yeah, but Quebecers are alot more politically savvy than the rest of Canada.

[Dayseed]

Alsocanadian,

Quebeckers are more politically savvy than the rest of Canada? How do you figure that? Are you just blowing smoke?

And to the rest of you Seperatists, shove it. Let's see what happens if Ontario decides to blow off the rest of you. How about that? No more transfer payments, flat out no more money rolling in from Ontario. Man, Ontario would do just fine without anybody else.

Screw Quebec Independence, let's talk about a free and viable Ontario. You know, the province that matters.

[Mustang1]

Freaker,

Well…if this is too emotional for you, why participate? Seems rather hypocritical to proclaim something “too emotional to be any of value” and then offer some related musings on said “emotional” thread. Apparently when you post, it’s constructive and when others debate its unilaterally dismissed as emotional. Hmm…I think this begs more.

Firstly, whether it’s emotional or not is immaterial – what’s crucial is that a dialogue exists. Is it antagonistic? Yes. How about inflammatory? Yep. Is it characterized as adversarial? You bet. When one “discusses” the separation of one’s nation ( I happen to be a federalist and abhor the inherent bigotry of nationalism), it’s bound to become heated (that doesn’t automatically dismiss competent argumentative points) and yet, you’ve taken upon yourself to judge the merits of the thread based on your own flawed observations. Please. As far as that is concerned: it’s merely your opinion – a personal idea unsubstantiated by fact.

Freaker Freaker:

6- It doesn't serve anyone to rub Quebecers' noses in the fact that they were conquered on the Plains of Abraham! This kind of talk is just depressing and childish

Don’t tell me what to do – I’m not your monkey. Besides I’ll introduce whatever argumentative stream I see fit – I don’t need your unsolicited verification for point legitimacy. Besides, if separatists introduce questionable history – I’ll correct it with objective facts and their defeat on the Plains of Abraham is a MAJOR event in Canadian history. The fact that they misrepresent the particulars of the Quebec Act and the Royal Proclamation are cause to readdress their errors. Is that rubbing their nose in it? That’s merely your interpretation. Thanks, but it wasn’t solicited.

[alsocanadian]

Hey, you guys must agree with me, you keep voting for them

[Streaker]

Mustang1: Well well, nic-fitting just a little, eh?

You mentioned that you are a federalist. Good. But IMHO, the way you present your arguments is bound to be seen by others as being truculent, which will do little to aid the federalist cause which you champion. I'm sure that you have gone some way towards reinforcing LysPatriote's political views regarding this issue. BTW, I wouldn't be surprised if he posted this entire thread on his site. He and his friends over at "laliberation" will without doubt see your posts as constituting further evidence of English Canadian hatred towards Franco-Quebecers.
I know that was not your intent, but these guys see things the way they want to see 'em! Once again, IMHO, you are playing into their hands and I think your arguments would carry much greater weight if you would suppress your towering ego a little bit when you are making them!

On the other hand, if you enjoy or for some other reason prefer to adopt a confrontational approach, be my guest. Socrates was one of the greats and his influence on you is readily apparent!

[hemi_6pac]

To those who either sympathize or support the traitors to Canada, the evil and short sighted Separatists, you both should be treated as traitors to my country and therefore HUNG till you die!

You freaks disgust me, you have no backbone and youwhine like little girls on a consistent basis! Get out of my country and move to some freak-land country like France, Belgium, anywhere............ Just leave my country you back stabbing freaks.

[alsocanadian]

Hemi you should be arrested...for using the word "freak" too many times in a paragraph!

[Mustang1]

Freaker: good one…no seriously that was really funny…”nic-fitting”? Damn.

Firstly, my tone is hardly consistently vitriolic – it’s merely one that dismisses hidden agendas and blatant misrepresentations of history. I don’t possess much patience for rhetoric and while some may call my approach overzealous others may see it as a spirited defence of one’s nation against the bigotry of nationalism.

My aggressive persistency has done, “little to aid the federalist cause which you champion” as you assert. Please. That’s rather naïve – the inherent bigotry and ignorance displayed by the separatists on this forum will not be fundamentally altered from its current course simply because I act “nicely.” They won’t abandon their agenda, ideas or falsehoods simply because I am civil. Besides, it’s about time some one called them to task on their severely misguided political path – I’m not going to persuade them to my side and I sure as hell won’t sit idly by and absorb their rhetoric either. It’s an adversarial discourse. Deal with it.

Freaker Freaker:

He and his friends over at "laliberation" will without doubt see your posts as constituting further evidence of English Canadian hatred towards Franco-Quebecers.

Who cares? He’s merely spewing rhetoric there anyway – if it were not this (likely taken out of context) it would be something else. Besides where is he now anyway? He ran away the minute he was challenged to address objective history. That kind of disingenuous strategy hardly warrants any consideration in a debate.

Secondly, where have I exhibited “hatred towards Franco-Quebecers?” That’s a strong allegation and I’d like to see your irrefutable evidence that somehow influenced this impression. I have a strong dislike towards bigoted French nationalists separatists, but that’s not what you implied. In the future, don’t ascribe prejudices to me that are not supported by objective evidence.

[Quebeclibre]

hemi_6pac hemi_6pac:

To those who either sympathize or support the traitors to Canada, the evil and short sighted Separatists, you both should be treated as traitors to my country and therefore HUNG till you die!

You freaks disgust me, you have no backbone and youwhine like little girls on a consistent basis! Get out of my country and move to some freak-land country like France, Belgium, anywhere............ Just leave my country you back stabbing freaks.

Between Canayans and Quebecers, Quebecers was first to arrive in Canada...
take your shit, your clothes, your familiy and go back to England....stupid ass hole.

[Streaker]

Mustang1: Nowhere did I suggest that you exhibited "hatred towards Franco-Quebecers". I even explicitly stated "I know that was not your intent" when raising the point that those separatists were bound to come to the conclusion that you were some kind of Francophobe. As you know, some separatists believe only what they want to believe, and it serves their purpose to believe that you are some kind of Anglo-Canadian bigot. It's unfortunate you got the idea that I was accusing you of prejudice, but a careful reading of that post should make it clear that I wasn't. Anyone who found that loon 747 as offensive as we both did couldn't reasonably be accused of bigotry!

Regarding the question of how we should deal with the separatists, well, it's a tough one, isn't it? Some of them are incredibly stubborn and, as you mentioned, there is no possibility of reasoning with them. Indeed, some of them are morons of the highest calibre, comme Quebeclibre ci-dessus! However I disagree that they have all succumbed to the "bigotry of nationalism", as you suggest. I consider myself a proud Canadian - I don't think that makes me a bigot! Are you a proud Canadian? I'm guessing the answer is yes.

Quebecers are proud to be Quebecers. Some of them are also proud Canadians. As for the separatists, some of them are rabid ethnic nationalists and possess ugly motives. Others, however, could best be described as civic nationalists who are generally rational and open-minded people. These are the ones who can be reasoned with and with whom we could engage in a rewarding debate, provided the atmosphere was one of mutual respect.

Unfortunately, with blowhards like Quebeclibre and Hemi_6pac there is little chance of that happening on this thread.

[RoyalHighlander]

hemi_6pac hemi_6pac:

To those who either sympathize or support the traitors to Canada, the evil and short sighted Separatists, you both should be treated as traitors to my country and therefore HUNG till you die!

You freaks disgust me, you have no backbone and youwhine like little girls on a consistent basis! Get out of my country and move to some freak-land country like France, Belgium, anywhere............ Just leave my country you back stabbing freaks.

WOW relax... You have only 4 posts here so far but you are swinging around insults in a topic like you been here for ever.. At least get you feet wet here a bit,,,

[RoyalHighlander]

Quebeclibre Quebeclibre:

Between Canayans and Quebecers, Quebecers was first to arrive in Canada...
take your shit, your clothes, your familiy and go back to England....stupid ass hole.

Another newbie member allready calling other people names here.. be nice or I will taunt you some more...

[Optinum]

humm, little offf topic, but im sure that fleurlys is gone. flamming forum like the cowboysfringants forum.

litke fact in the histoy for all!!!!
hystory is not the same for the 2 faction of canada
quebecer leearn the history of newfrance, the conquest and history of canada
but the history of canada is focuss on quebec, little is written about the ohter province so lets say that our history book is officaly named lhistoire du quebec et du canada. this is why english and french dont aggree so much on the history.
2ieme fact, News on T.v, can i say that the new on cbc is TOTALY BORING, meaby is just me, but shit, i preffer my french news tv with quebec news on quebec and the internationnal affairs.

ok jvois deja godz dire que tva c dla vrai marde(tqs aussi) mais bon...

[Mustang1]

Freaker,

If it wasn’t your intention, than I’ll take you at your word. Next time, however, be extremely wary of how you place potentially inflammatory statements in posts as their context can convey numerous interpretations. On this matter, I’ll trust that your intent was not malicious.


Optimum,

Your assertion about historical interpretation is somewhat erroneous. History does contain objective truths and while some governments questionably employ history as a nationalistic enterprise (not Ontario!) it’s still up to the readers to criticize the content. I’ve seen more historical misrepresentation on this forum by professed separatists than anything – they spew the worst bastardizations of history and when I challenge their incorrect suppositions with relevant primary and secondary sources they cower, dodge and shift away from the salient points. That’s not history’s fault – that’s a direct component of agenda-pushers who seek to spread rhetoric and not establish historical realities. It’s too bad Quebec gets such a limited view of Canadian history as it tends to foster a false feeling of alienation and persecution that is somehow historical in origin – actually, it’s simply bad history.

[Mustang1]

Quebeclibre Quebeclibre:

Between Canayans and Quebecers, Quebecers was first to arrive in Canada...
take your shit, your clothes, your familiy and go back to England....stupid ass hole.

Good one…we should “go back to England”? Why? And what the hell is a “Canayans”? Jesus Christ man, get some pride before you cough up another piece of puke like this!