[andyt]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/tories-forced-off-message-scramble-douse-abortion-fire-103731465.html

Quote:

The spectre of a hidden social conservative agenda forced the Harper government's tightly-scripted election campaign into damage control mode Thursday in an attempt to keep the divisive abortion issue off the table.
Prime Minister Stephen Harper's chief spokesman summoned reporters to the lobby of a Newfoundland hotel early Thursday to offer unsolicited comment about a Toronto Star and Le Devoir story about a Saskatchewan MP that apparently went badly off message.
Spokesman Dimitri Soudas's impromptu scrum at 12:30 a.m. was sparked by reports that quoted a Conservative Saskatchewan backbencher bragging in a weekend speech that International Planned Parenthood Federation had its funding blocked because it supported abortion.
Candidate Brad Trost reportedly told a pro-life meeting in Saskatchewan that the efforts of the movement had likely denied the organization funding after decades of receiving it.

[OnTheIce]

The Tories just need to remind people that they have never brough forth anti-Abortion legislation, despite their personal beliefs and have been telling Canadians for the past 5 years that they're not interested in re-visiting abortion.

Further, they can remind Canadian's that it was Liberal MP Bob Steckle who brough forth anti-abortion legislation a few years back.

[DerbyX]

OnTheIce wrote:

The Tories just need to remind people that they have never brough forth anti-Abortion legislation, despite their personal beliefs and have been telling Canadians for the past 5 years that they're not interested in re-visiting abortion.

Further, they can remind Canadian's that it was Liberal MP Bob Steckle who brough forth anti-abortion legislation a few years back.

Yes they have. They did it under the PC banner and again under the Alliance. They are firmly committed to either banning it or strictly regulating into defacto bans.

It is one of the reasons why they are simply not trusted and we have no reason to believe they aren't lying through their teeth since even you said they were all (all politicians) lying sacks of shit.

Abortion is one of those things that its opponents fully support using any and all tactics to stop its practice including lying to get elected and then enacting punishing laws. Even if they know they will be unelected the next election they will still se it as a victory in that they "saved" children for as long as they could.

Harper is not committed to protecting womens right to choose. He does however understand that a formal opposition to abortion makes his party unelectable in most of the country and therefore will never publicly admit it.

[OnTheIce]

DerbyX wrote:

OnTheIce wrote:

The Tories just need to remind people that they have never brough forth anti-Abortion legislation, despite their personal beliefs and have been telling Canadians for the past 5 years that they're not interested in re-visiting abortion.

Further, they can remind Canadian's that it was Liberal MP Bob Steckle who brough forth anti-abortion legislation a few years back.

Yes they have. They did it under the PC banner and again under the Alliance. They are firmly committed to either banning it or strictly regulating into defacto bans.

It is one of the reasons why they are simply not trusted and we have no reason to believe they aren't lying through their teeth since even you said they were all (all politicians) lying sacks of shit.

Abortion is one of those things that its opponents fully support using any and all tactics to stop its practice including lying to get elected and then enacting punishing laws. Even if they know they will be unelected the next election they will still se it as a victory in that they "saved" children for as long as they could.

Harper is not committed to protecting womens right to choose. He does however understand that a formal opposition to abortion makes his party unelectable in most of the country and therefore will never publicly admit it.

The Conservative Party of Canada under Steven Harper has NEVER brought forth abortion legislation nor have they allowed ANY MP to do so either.

The Liberal Party of Canada has allowed one of their backbench MP's to table such legislation.

Harper has been in government for 5 years and not even a wiff of anti-abortion legislation, unlike the previous Liberal government.

If you want to be afraid of the CPC and Harper, fine....just don't look past the Liberals either. There's a big chunk of them who are pro-life as well.

[OnTheIce]

DerbyX wrote:

OnTheIce wrote:

The Tories just need to remind people that they have never brough forth anti-Abortion legislation, despite their personal beliefs and have been telling Canadians for the past 5 years that they're not interested in re-visiting abortion.

Further, they can remind Canadian's that it was Liberal MP Bob Steckle who brough forth anti-abortion legislation a few years back.

Yes they have. They did it under the PC banner and again under the Alliance. They are firmly committed to either banning it or strictly regulating into defacto bans.

It is one of the reasons why they are simply not trusted and we have no reason to believe they aren't lying through their teeth since even you said they were all (all politicians) lying sacks of shit.

Abortion is one of those things that its opponents fully support using any and all tactics to stop its practice including lying to get elected and then enacting punishing laws. Even if they know they will be unelected the next election they will still se it as a victory in that they "saved" children for as long as they could.

Harper is not committed to protecting womens right to choose. He does however understand that a formal opposition to abortion makes his party unelectable in most of the country and therefore will never publicly admit it.

Could you please provide me with some links to back up that either the PC Party or the Canadian Alliance brought forth legislation to ban abortions?

I'm not aware of any such instances.

[Mr_Canada]

OnTheIce wrote:

The Tories just need to remind people that they have never brough forth anti-Abortion legislation, despite their personal beliefs and have been telling Canadians for the past 5 years that they're not interested in re-visiting abortion.

The other parties would all vote such legislation down in a minority government.

I think it's REALLY easy to see 'why' the Conservatives are quiet in their campaigns. They will have so much more open ability to alter the country with a majority government.

P.S. OnTheIce... I don't trust the Liberals either,

[OnTheIce]

Mr_Canada wrote:

OnTheIce wrote:

The Tories just need to remind people that they have never brough forth anti-Abortion legislation, despite their personal beliefs and have been telling Canadians for the past 5 years that they're not interested in re-visiting abortion.

The other parties would all vote such legislation down in a minority government.

I think it's REALLY easy to see 'why' the Conservatives are quiet in their campaigns. They will have so much more open ability to alter the country with a majority government.

P.S. OnTheIce... I don't trust the Liberals either,

We've been told for 6 years to "fear" Harper, and in the end, nothing has happened.

Not even a "wiff" of this feared leader.

With a handful of anti-abortion people on both sides of the House, legislation would have been a viable option had they wanted to proceed.

They never did.

[Mr_Canada]

Plenty has happened. Not on abortion, but plenty has happened. I don't fear Harper as much as I outright oppose the clown.

There is certainly room for the possibility that Harper has realized the political suicide in the abortion issue and that he is an honest man who doesn't want to bring the issue up ever again and will instead focus on the economy because 'that's what Canadians want'.

I also think there's room for the possibility that he's a liar.

[QBC]

Lets face it, Harper hasn't had a majority government. He's been forced to play nice due to the political balancing act he has to perform. We'll only get to see the "true" Harper if or when he forms a majority government and isn't looking at a non- confidence vote after every action. I don't trust him, but them again, I don't trust any politician.

Fear him? I guess I just don't like the idea of him in a majority government situation. I get the feeling from him that he's a fair bit farther to the right then he is leading us to believe.

[andyt]

QBC wrote:

Lets face it, Harper hasn't had a majority government. He's been forced to play nice due to the political balancing act he has to perform. We'll only get to see the "true" Harper if or when he forms a majority government and isn't looking at a non- confidence vote after every action. I don't trust him, but them again, I don't trust any politician.

Fear him? I guess I just don't like the idea of him in a majority government situation. I get the feeling from him that he's a fair bit farther to the right then he is leading us to believe.

[DerbyX]

OnTheIce wrote:

The Conservative Party of Canada under Steven Harper has NEVER brought forth abortion legislation nor have they allowed ANY MP to do so either.

The Liberal Party of Canada has allowed one of their backbench MP's to table such legislation.

Harper has been in government for 5 years and not even a wiff of anti-abortion legislation, unlike the previous Liberal government.

If you want to be afraid of the CPC and Harper, fine....just don't look past the Liberals either. There's a big chunk of them who are pro-life as well.

They won't. I keep telling you that they fully understand it makes them unelectable. They KNOW it and so Harper has told even his most virulent anti-abortion party members to STFU or else.

Even if Harper swore on his mammas soul he wouldn't criminalize/severely restrict abortion I see no reason why he wouldn't just as easily go back on this promise as say the taxing of income trusts or floor crossing or just about any other promise.

You firmly believe Iggy would back track on his sworn "no coalition" promise.

I see no reason why I shouldn't hold the same belief about Harper.

Yes there are anti-abortion Libs. I think they should all be tossed myself. The last I heard the ratio was under 40% for the Libs and over 60% for the CPC.

OTI wrote:

Could you please provide me with some links to back up that either the PC Party or the Canadian Alliance brought forth legislation to ban abortions?

I'm not aware of any such instances.

1989 – A new abortion law, Bill C-43, is presented in the House of Commons. It passes May 29, 1990 and is sent to Senate for debate. Bill C-43 retains abortion as a criminal offence but permits it on very broad grounds.

2002 - Liberal, N.D.P. and Bloc MPs refused consent in the House of Commons to accept a motion from Canadian Alliance MP Garry Breitkreuz to protect unborn children. A year earlier, Breitkreuz tried to convince the House of the need to modify the definition of “human being” in the Criminal Code, which he calls “scientifically incorrect.”

-- This is a key aspect since anti-abortionists have tried MANY times to bring in such laws under the auspice of going after people who murder pregnant women harshly or batter then to the degree they miscarry but they almost always word it so abortion can also be prosecuted.

You'll also note that the 2007 entry:

2007 – Alberta MP Ken Epp introduces Private Members’ Bill C-484 that would amend the Criminal Code making it a separate crime to injure or kill a fetus in the course of a violent attack on the mother. The bill includes an exemption for women who consent to abortion. The bill is declared votable and is debated for one hour in the House of Commons.

This is not a bill supporting womens rights per se but part of the CPC "tough on crime" stance.

[commanderkai]

DerbyX wrote:

You'll also note that the 2007 entry:

2007 – Alberta MP Ken Epp introduces Private Members’ Bill C-484 that would amend the Criminal Code making it a separate crime to injure or kill a fetus in the course of a violent attack on the mother. The bill includes an exemption for women who consent to abortion. The bill is declared votable and is debated for one hour in the House of Commons.

This is not a bill supporting womens rights per se but part of the CPC "tough on crime" stance.

What's wrong with this one, exactly? If a woman willingly chooses to have a baby, and said fetus is injured or killed. Considering it clearly states an exemption to abortions, how is this a symbol of the Conservative Party under Harper wanting to repeal abortion legislation?

[Zipperfish]

QBC wrote:

Lets face it, Harper hasn't had a majority government. He's been forced to play nice due to the political balancing act he has to perform. We'll only get to see the "true" Harper if or when he forms a majority government and isn't looking at a non- confidence vote after every action. I don't trust him, but them again, I don't trust any politician.

Fear him? I guess I just don't like the idea of him in a majority government situation. I get the feeling from him that he's a fair bit farther to the right then he is leading us to believe.

I think you summed my feelings up wonderfully right there, mate.

[OnTheIce]

QBC wrote:

Lets face it, Harper hasn't had a majority government. He's been forced to play nice due to the political balancing act he has to perform. We'll only get to see the "true" Harper if or when he forms a majority government and isn't looking at a non- confidence vote after every action. I don't trust him, but them again, I don't trust any politician.

Fear him? I guess I just don't like the idea of him in a majority government situation. I get the feeling from him that he's a fair bit farther to the right then he is leading us to believe.

And if Harper wins a majority and none of this fear mongering comes to life, then what?

[andyt]

OnTheIce wrote:

QBC wrote:

Lets face it, Harper hasn't had a majority government. He's been forced to play nice due to the political balancing act he has to perform. We'll only get to see the "true" Harper if or when he forms a majority government and isn't looking at a non- confidence vote after every action. I don't trust him, but them again, I don't trust any politician.

Fear him? I guess I just don't like the idea of him in a majority government situation. I get the feeling from him that he's a fair bit farther to the right then he is leading us to believe.

And if Harper wins a majority and none of this fear mongering comes to life, then what?

Then great. We can relax. I just think the risk is too great to try it.