[Gunnair]

Quote:

Lorne Gunter Aug 5, 2011 – 7:30 AM ET | Last Updated: Aug 4, 2011 5:36 PM ET

It’s plausible that Turmel joined one separatist party to support a friend. But why did she then join another?

My mom used to say, “Once is funny, twice is bad.” You were welcome to indulge in our family’s smartass humour once, for the sake of a laugh. Indulge twice and you were just being disrespectful or vulgar, or both. You were likely to be asked to leave the dinner table.

The same could be said of NDP Interim Leader Nycole Turmel. Join a separatist party once, we can forgive that, but join a second, that’s bad. That’s a pattern. It betrays serial misjudgment. Taking out the second membership undermines your explanation that the first was meaningless. It also calls into question your insistence that you’re a federalist. If nothing else, it makes the latter assertion harder to swallow.

A lot of commentators have urged Canadians to shrug off Ms. Turmel’s membership in the Bloc Quebecois until January of this year as a triviality or, better yet, as a sign of Quebecers’ greater sophistication. Her membership in the BQ was a mere ideological bonbon, popped in the political mouth, swallowed whole and then forgotten. To read more than that into it is a bourgeoisie anglo hang-up. Get over yourselves, Rest of Canada, Quebecers do this sort of costume change all the time.

Maybe if the BQ member card was the only separatist plastic in Ms. Turmel’s handbag, this explanation might work. Maybe it would be believable that Ms. Turmel is a staunch federalist who only took out a Bloc membership to support her friend Carole Lavallee’s efforts to win re-election to the House of Commons.

Quebecers had long ago gotten over the idea of the Bloc as primarily a separatist party. It had come to be seen, in their eyes, as simply a Quebec-first party, one that aired the province’s gripes in Ottawa and brought back as much plunder as it could from Canadian taxpayers.

So if Ms. Turmel’s involvement with the separatist movement ended there, it might be possible to explain it away as a fling or a dalliance on behalf of a long-time pal.

Unfortunately her flirtation with Quebec nationalism doesn’t end with the Bloc. NDP interim boss Nycole Turmel is also — still — a member of the provincial sovereigntist party Quebec solidaire, which was founded in 2006 because the Parti Quebecois as not separatist enough or socialist enough.

It might still have been possible to dismiss Ms. Turmel’s separatist affiliations if the provincial party she had chosen to support had been the Parti Quebecois. Until April of this year, the PQ, like the Bloc, had all but abandoned separatism, or at least pushed it way, way down its priority list — so far down that it was almost possible to forget the PQ’s ultimate goal was the break-up of Canada (at its convention this spring, the PQ reverted to a hardline on separatism, pledging to make a referendum on sovereignty a priority if elected).

But instead of the tepid PQ, Ms. Turmel signed on with the rabid Quebec solidaire (QS), which felt the need to come into being in large measure because its founders thought the PQ wasn’t pushing separation aggressively enough or fast enough.

The QS disparages all three other Quebec provincial parties — the Liberals, the PQ and Action democratique — because it sees them as too right-wing. It prides itself on being anti-globalist, radically socialist, staunchly feminist and vehemently pro-union. In other words, in Canada’s most leftist province, the QS is by far the most leftist party.

There is no mistaking the QS’s position on Quebec separation. No one who buys a membership can claim to be a soft nationalist or a nationalist-of-convenience. No member is someone who unwittingly got caught up in a radical organization because either a) she merely wanted to advance a friend’s political ambitions or b) she didn’t understand fully the nature of the organization she was joining.

But there are plenty of signs that Ms. Turmel walked into the BQ with both eyes open, too; that she meant to join a separatist organization. For instance, when she quit the Bloc in January of this year to run for an NDP nomination, she sent back her membership card with a note that said her cancellation had “nothing to do with the party’s policies, I am doing this for personal reasons.” It’s very hard to see how a committed federalist squares that with her love for Canada.

Of course Nycole Turmel’s involvement with the BQ and QS matters. It’s a good indicator of her true beliefs.

National Post

[Freakinoldguy]

What a fitting interim leader for the NDP considering their astonishing success in Quebec. Now we know the reasons why.

As much as I hope Jack gets well, I hope to hell him and his party are systematically erased from the Canadian Political Landscape for putting their dogmatic socialist aspirations ahead of the good of Canada, by sleeping with every lunatic seperatist or unkowning student in Quebec just to get a place at the table.

[ShepherdsDog]

Jack, the consummate opportunist, had to be able to recognize another opportunist. Once he passes away, the NDP leadership covention promises to be real interesting. Will it remain a party of Canada or will it become the new party of Quebec....or will it implode like the Liberals did. I still think that Turdsmel is going to be a boon to the Libs and Green party. Loyalist Lefties need a place to go.

[Macguyver]

Freakinoldguy wrote:

I hope to hell him and his party are systematically erased from the Canadian Political Landscape for putting their dogmatic socialist aspirations ahead of the good of Canada, by sleeping with every lunatic seperatist or unkowning student in Quebec just to get a place at the table.

And are your hopes the same for your own party?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2011/08/09/pol-lebel-bloc.html?ref=rss

Quote:

A member of Stephen Harper's cabinet from Quebec has confirmed his past association with the sovereignty movement.

Transport Minister Denis Lebel, who represents the riding of Roberval-Lac-Saint-Jean and also serves as the minister responsible for the Economic Development Agency for Quebec, has confirmed he was a member of the Bloc Québécois for eight years, from July 23, 1993 to April 28, 2001.

Lebel says he disclosed his past membership to the voters in his riding, and that he joined the BQ while he was active in community organizations in Roberval.

Although he was a member, Lebel denies being "active" in the Bloc, although he admits to participating in partisan activities and donating a few hundred dollars to the BQ's fundraising efforts.

Wow, A cabinet minister no less.

[Canadian_Mind]

Two big differences. 1. He was a member of only the one party (and honestly, what Quebecer wouldn't want to be a part of the Bloc? As much as I hate them, it makes sense). 2. He was in it over 10 years ago now. It's not like he quit the federal party yesterday to get a cabinet spot, nor is he currently a card carrying member of the PQ or the QS.

[stokes]

Why cant we just agree that politicians are pigs at the trough and the smart ones go where the feeding is most likely to continue.

I dont care who was what and when, even Helena Guergis(sp) didnt want to leave her cushy government seat and all of its benefits.

It is hard to respect a politician who jumps from party to party as they seem to be worst of the worst.

[mentalfloss]

Canadian_Mind wrote:

Two big differences. 1. He was a member of only the one party (and honestly, what Quebecer wouldn't want to be a part of the Bloc? As much as I hate them, it makes sense). 2. He was in it over 10 years ago now. It's not like he quit the federal party yesterday to get a cabinet spot, nor is he currently a card carrying member of the PQ or the QS.

1.) The Bloc is still primarily a separatist party.
2.) It doesn't make a difference if Turmel's currently a card carrying member as long as her current actions are federalist in nature.

The only difference is for those who judge others based entirely on their past and not their current actions for the party they belong to.

[Mustang1]

Any way you spin it, anyone that openly supported a bigoted, nationalistic, politically-antiquated political movement like the separtiststs (sorry, that's "sovereignty-association" if you drank the kool-aid) is suspect as federalist. At the very least, their political judgement is questionable.

[Macguyver]

Canadian_Mind wrote:

Two big differences. 1. He was a member of only the one party (and honestly, what Quebecer wouldn't want to be a part of the Bloc? As much as I hate them, it makes sense). 2. He was in it over 10 years ago now. It's not like he quit the federal party yesterday to get a cabinet spot, nor is he currently a card carrying member of the PQ or the QS.

Fair enough, but would you rather have an ex bloc-member who now is the Transport Minister in a majority government and therefore makes decisions on the course of our country...

OR would you rather have the interm official minority opposition leader former BQ who really has no clout or say in the direction of our country while in office?

Seems to me that if you are scared of someone at all it should be choice A.

[mentalfloss]

Mustang1 wrote:

Any way you spin it, anyone that openly supported a bigoted, nationalistic, politically-antiquated political movement like the separtiststs (sorry, that's "sovereignty-association" if you drank the kool-aid) is suspect as federalist. At the very least, their political judgement is questionable.

"I represent Canada. I am a federalist," said Turmel, sticking to a series of answers about what she called "a mistake."

Earlier in the day, Turmel said she backs the NDP position on federal support for the Lower Churchill hydroelectric megaproject, despite opposition from the Quebec government and many Quebec politicians.

"I support the request of Newfoundland on this issue. This is clear to me," said Turmel, referring to the Newfoundland and Labrador government's application for a federal loan guarantee to develop power at Muskrat Falls, on Labrador's Churchill River.

Turmel said she will put pressure on Prime Minister Stephen Harper to follow through with an election pledge to support the project. "At this point nothing is signed, so we need to make sure this [happens]," she said.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2 ... s-804.html

[Mustang1]

mentalfloss wrote:

Mustang1 wrote:

Any way you spin it, anyone that openly supported a bigoted, nationalistic, politically-antiquated political movement like the separtiststs (sorry, that's "sovereignty-association" if you drank the kool-aid) is suspect as federalist. At the very least, their political judgement is questionable.

"I represent Canada. I am a federalist," said Turmel, sticking to a series of answers about what she called "a mistake."

Earlier in the day, Turmel said she backs the NDP position on federal support for the Lower Churchill hydroelectric megaproject, despite opposition from the Quebec government and many Quebec politicians.

"I support the request of Newfoundland on this issue. This is clear to me," said Turmel, referring to the Newfoundland and Labrador government's application for a federal loan guarantee to develop power at Muskrat Falls, on Labrador's Churchill River.

Turmel said she will put pressure on Prime Minister Stephen Harper to follow through with an election pledge to support the project. "At this point nothing is signed, so we need to make sure this [happens]," she said.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2 ... s-804.html

Yea, and?

A "mistake" was being a Habs fan, a "significant error in political judgement" (especially in a nation like Canada and especially if you continue in federal politics) was being a separatist.

[BruSan]

Oh, it is a tangled web we weave when we practice to deceive!
Should be the required chant for every politician when shaving or applying morning make up.

"Once a separatist always a separatist" doesn't hold water for me as I don't believe 80% of them are actually "bonafide separatists" but rather opportunists that know that game of mewling loudly and threatening to throw another tantrum on the worlds stage will often result in money and recogniton being thrown their way; I suspect she's simply one of those "separatists of convenience".

That makes her a far worse candidate for any form of public trust in my eyes.

So too are any party crashers like Bob Rae who will now make the most of this little tid-bit to give his defunct party some traction in the press. He will conveniently refrain from attacking Jack Layton for his choice of interim leader as Jack is currently off limits being very ill, but that won't stop him attacking Turmel herself with all of the phony outrage he can muster while conveniently glossing over his own perfidy jumping ship once himself and also his willingness to cozy up to the separatists in that still-born "coalition of the retarded" back when they were desperate to attack the conservatives.

They're all just very bad actors in a third rate play!

[Scape]

Attacking people for once having been involved with separatist politics is self defeating. If we really want to convert people to federalism, why tell them that they have no business ever being part of a federalist party or in federal politics if they have a 'separatist past'?.

[Mustang1]

No one is saying that they have no business being in a federalist party or federal politics, but to pull the wool over your eyes regarding their political judgement is rather naive.

Personally, i have a significant problem with anyone that has openly supported separatism in my country and if that person later, perhaps rather conveniently or opportunistically, decides to commit themselves to the federalist cause, then fine, but that doesn't erase their rather recent political commitments nor does gloss over a rather questionable tendacy to drift towards ugly political movements.

This isn't self-defeating, it's good citizenry.

[mentalfloss]

Turmel vs. Lebel: their sovereigntist ties

How long were they members of a sovereigntist party?
Turmel held a Bloc membership for just over four years, from December 2006 until January 2011. She became an NDP candidate shortly afterwards. It's unclear exactly when Turmel became a member of Quebec Solidaire, but it only formed as a provincial political party in November 2006. Turmel did not give up her membership in the provincial party until it became controversial last week.

Lebel was a member of the Bloc for eight years, from July 1993 until April 2001. In the summer of 1993, the Bloc was fighting its first-ever federal election campaign, under then-leader Lucien Bouchard. (The party became the official Opposition that fall.) Lebel was still a Bloc member when he was elected mayor of Roberval in 2000.

Why were they members of a sovereigntist party?
Turmel says she took out a Bloc membership to 'support a friend': then-BQ MP Carole Lavallée. She says she agrees with some of the Bloc's policies, but not its position on national unity. When Turmel served as the head of the Public Service Alliance of Canada, the national federal civil servants' union endorsed Bloc Québécois candidates. Of Quebec Solidaire, Turmel told Rosemary Barton on Power & Politics that her support for the provincial party was based on the fact that "they work on issues for Quebec families." She says Quebec Solidaire spokesperson (the party does not have a leader in the traditional sense) Françoise David is also a friend of hers.

Lebel explains his Bloc membership as part of his political and community involvement more generally in the Saguenay-Lac-Saint-John region of Quebec, a nationalist stronghold. He told Radio-Canada that he wanted to get closer to then-MP Michel Gauthier, who became the leader of the Bloc after Lucien Bouchard left to become premier of Quebec in 1996.

How active and committed were they to the sovereigntist cause?
Turmel says that despite her memberships and the small donations (totalling $235) she made in support of her friend Lavallée, she was never active in the sovereignty movement per se. Her past work as a national union leader did find her on common ground with the Bloc on other social and justice issues. She maintains that she is and always has been a federalist. Turmel has disclosed that she voted against separation in both of Quebec's sovereignty referendums.

Lebel says that despite his membership and small donations (a few hundred dollars), he never actively campaigned for the Bloc, although he did attend Bloc events and participate in partisan activities. A party organizer for the Bloc during that time period supports his claim not to have been a party activist or strong campaigner. Lebel told reporters in 2007 that he is a Quebec nationalist. Lebel has not disclosed how he voted in Quebec's sovereignty

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/inside- ... -ties.html