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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:01 pm
 


OTTAWA — In a surprise twist in Canada’s shipbuilding saga, a foreign consortium is offering the country a way to build a fleet of warships at a guaranteed price of $30 billion — a potential savings of $32 billion.

Fincantieri of Italy and Naval Group of France — major forces in international shipbuilding — don’t believe the current $62-billion Canadian Surface Combatant program, already beset with delays and increasing costs, will be successful, industry sources told Postmedia.

Instead, the French and Italian governments have proposed that Canada’s chosen contractor, Halifax-based Irving Shipbuilding, build 15 ships based on the consortium’s FREMM frigate design, which is proven and is in operation with the French and Italian navies. They are offering to guarantee the cost of the ships at a fixed $30 billion.


http://nationalpost.com/news/french-ita ... 32-billion


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:54 pm
 


I read this the other day. Fincantieri is a top-notch outfit. If we can save that kind of money, we should up the order from 15 ships to at least 20 ships. The more the merrier for the Navy. Let's get the ball rolling.

-J.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:05 pm
 


CDN_PATRIOT wrote:
I read this the other day. Fincantieri is a top-notch outfit. If we can save that kind of money, we should up the order from 15 ships to at least 20 ships. The more the merrier for the Navy. Let's get the ball rolling.

-J.


A great idea but you'd still have to man them which would be another separate issue. But the more we dawdle, screw the pooch and ruminate the less chance we have of ever getting those promised ships.

We have no problem buying every weapons and propulsion system we own off the shelf from countries like America and Italy so, I can't see why the hell we can't just take that mentality one step further and buy the hull from the same people. Not only would it save money it'd also ensure compatibility between all those systems, something that has cost us hundreds of millions fixing in the past.


Last edited by Freakinoldguy on Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:06 pm
 


This is Canada, where DND Procurement isn't actually meant to procure anything. It's meant to issue contracts that keep big political donors happy. Anyone who thinks that the Irvings are going to quietly allow them losing $32 billion hasn't been paying attention to how this country operates and who it operates for. That money is going to who it's been designated for, even if a single ship never gets delivered to the navy.

The only "saving" that will occur will be if Irving someday delivers the ships for the $62 billion instead of for $100 billion with cost over-runs amounting to another $38 billion.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:10 pm
 


Sounds like a helluva deal we should go for.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:19 pm
 


xerxes wrote:
Sounds like a helluva deal we should go for.


After L'il Potato & Friends fucked up the SuperHornet deal in order to defend Bombardier against Boeing any deal already signed should be left alone just to avoid the barrage of lawsuits the Irvings would lay on them for reneging. Give these idiots a chance to "save" money and they'll somehow manage to end up turning it into $150 billion owing instead of the original $62 billion.

This is the country after all that got a sailor killed and ended up spending billions to refurbish submarines (that still don't work worth a damn) when they fell for the discount price of "only" $400 million that some crooked British navy salesmen offered them. And the original SeaKings are still in the air (sometimes) fifty years later because both major political parties keep managing to fuck up replacing them. Any and all cynicism when it comes to the Canadian government over military purchasing is entirely justified.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:23 pm
 


Fincanteri are the biggest shipbuilders in Europe.
They do a lot of cruise ships, and merchant / platform work as well.

$2billion seems ok, but they sell to
Cost:

€670m/unit[1](FY 2014)(France)
€598m/unit[2](FY 2016)(Italy)
€470m/unit[2] (Morocco)


No idea what extra toys the Navy wants for our ships though,
but the tech transfer and getting a piece of the pie for the future could
be interesting, especially if the Americans buy some.

No jobs for Canadians though, and that is what's been driving Canadian shipbuilding
for the last 25 years... pork, and only pork.

So I doubt it will happen.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:27 pm
 


Quote:

Instead, the French and Italian governments have proposed that Canada’s chosen contractor, Halifax-based Irving Shipbuilding, build 15 ships based on the consortium’s FREMM frigate design

Read the goddam thing.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:45 pm
 


Thanos wrote:
This is the country after all that ended up spending billions to refurbish submarines (that still don't work worth a damn).


All four are in service and fully operational.

HMCS Corner Brook finished her latest upgrade and operates out of Halifax.
HMCS Victoria is active and operates out of B.C.
HMCS Winsdor operates out of Halifax, and has been involved in NATO operations.
HMCS Chicoutimi has been on active assignment to Asia.

-J.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:55 am
 


And here's another reason to buy off the shelf even if that means purchasing the whole kit and kaboodle from another country. :evil:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scot ... -1.4430271


We've seen this same thing happen with MIL Davie back in the day and now it's reared it's ugly head again which, likely means a lengthy delay in the Artic Patrol Vessel completion.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:13 pm
 


Looks like this isn't happening. The proposal was submitted outside the official RFP, and therefore is unqualified to bid.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:29 pm
 


CDN_PATRIOT wrote:
Thanos wrote:
This is the country after all that ended up spending billions to refurbish submarines (that still don't work worth a damn).


All four are in service and fully operational.

HMCS Corner Brook finished her latest upgrade and operates out of Halifax.
HMCS Victoria is active and operates out of B.C.
HMCS Winsdor operates out of Halifax, and has been involved in NATO operations.
HMCS Chicoutimi has been on active assignment to Asia.

-J.


Might want to check that research.

Corner Brook still in EDWP
Victoria in drydock


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